Advice on finding writing work?

[jayk]

What's up ya'll.

Recently, I've been forced to make the switch from working on my sites, to finding freelance writing work wherever I can get it.

That being said, it seems like now that I'm looking for work, it's impossible to find.

Anytime, in the past, that I've attempted to work on my own projects, I'd have work thrown at me. Now that I want it, though, I dunno how to get it.

I've been busting my hump for the last week, trying to hustle up some work, to no avail. Not even a single paying order.

I keep hearing that selling copywriting services to business owners is one of the easiest sales you'll make, but then that's it. No advice on how to go about doing it, what types of businesses buy the copy, or anything else.

I've emailed web designers in my area, asking for overflow work. I've emailed SEOs online, asking for overflow work. I've even used up my 60 credits on Upwork trying to hustle up some extra cash. Nada. My portfolio got some padding, but that's about it.

I just shot over a message for a pre-approval thread to sell my services here on BuSo, but at this point, I'm feeling a complete loss of confidence, and like I'm just throwing my money away. And money is getting thin, at this point.

Does anyone have advice on how to go about drumming up some writing work? I feel like I just need a few first clients, to help spread my name and then the work will flow.

I came to BuSo to ask because it seems the level of success here is higher than in other forums.

I would love to get back to working on my sites, and living the semi-passive dream, but at this point, paying my bills with instant returns is a lot more important.

The work I've provided pro-bono was happily accepted, and good reviews were given, then nothing -- no referrals, no repeat order, nada.

At this point, I'm ready to jump off the deep end and spend my last $200 on a thread here, one at the WF, and one at DP, just to try and get my name in front of anybody that could possibly hire me.

Any tips for a hustler? I really don't feel like it should be this hard.

 

[Sutra]

Have you tried Upwork? That's where I hire most of my writers.

 

[jayk]

Yeah, I went through all 60 credits they gave me for the month, on Saturday. I even applied for jobs on there at $5 per article. 2,500 word eBook for $20 nonsense.

Can't even beg for slave labor on there, it seems. I've got the "Top 3% Writer" designation. You'd think that would count for something in an employer's eyes.

They're going to give me a new 60 tomorrow, so if there are another 30 new jobs to be found, I'll use up those credits, too.

Right now, I feel like I've pissed off the universe in some perverse way, or there really is something about to hit me that I've been waiting for, and just can't see it yet.

 

[John P.]

Hey Jayk ,

PM me when you have some time i might have some work for you if the quality is good.We'll get those first orders asap and if all is ok we can work something on a monthly plan

 

[Dorsia]

Granted, this only ever got me one job on upwork, but something I did that landed me a quick gig that ended up in $3k of billable hours was setting myself at the opposite end of the hourly earnings spectrum from the overseas outsourcing zerg rush. While everyone else was comfortably proposing at $5 to $15 hourly, I pitched at $80.

Find out what the top writers are charging and try to pitch yourself accordingly maybe? Worth a shot if you can't even beg for slave labor.

 

[c4yrslf12]

What niches can you write in?

 

[andreint]

Same question

 

[jayk]

Granted, this only ever got me one job on upwork, but something I did that landed me a quick gig that ended up in $3k of billable hours was setting myself at the opposite end of the hourly earnings spectrum from the overseas outsourcing zerg rush. While everyone else was comfortably proposing at $5 to $15 hourly, I pitched at $80.

Find out what the top writers are charging and try to pitch yourself accordingly maybe? Worth a shot if you can't even beg for slave labor.

That was the strategy I planned to use for the next 60 they give me. I tried the low end, already. The plan was going to be bidding the highest amount possible, seeing if it didn't make a difference.

What niches can you write in?

I'm fairly comfortable in a wide range of niches. I'd say I have the most experience in marketing/MMO, outdoors, cars, pets, most mainstream niches.

I've started studying copywriting, and have had quite a bit of positive feedback on the critiques I've asked for so far -- but again, no paying clients yet.

Thanks for the responses ya'll. I'm still waiting back on my pre-approval to get a marketplace thread. The offer is HUGE for me, though. Even being a writer, it's hard to put into words lol

 

[Dorsia]

That was the strategy I planned to use for the next 60 they give me. I tried the low end, already. The plan was going to be bidding the highest amount possible, seeing if it didn't make a difference.



I'm fairly comfortable in a wide range of niches. I'd say I have the most experience in marketing/MMO, outdoors, cars, pets, most mainstream niches.

I've started studying copywriting, and have had quite a bit of positive feedback on the critiques I've asked for so far -- but again, no paying clients yet.

Thanks for the responses ya'll. I'm still waiting back on my pre-approval to get a marketplace thread. The offer is HUGE for me, though. Even being a writer, it's hard to put into words lol

I just took a quick look: for native English speakers in the USA charging at least $60 or more, who have been active the past two weeks, the list of freelancers get's whittled down to 550 writers. Not sure if it'd be worth your time, but there's plenty of ways to raise yourself to a much narrower group of guys than that if you're arsed enough.

 

[jayk]

I'll do anything that will bring home the bacon, at this point. Those stats are crazy. Not sure exactly how to take them. I've set my rates on Upwork to $30 per hour, thinking that was "baller" lol ;/

You've piqued my curiosity about raising myself to a narrower group -- seems like I could charge more. What exactly did you mean by that?

 

[stackcash]

I just responded to your PM. Shoot me that e-mail when you get the chance.

You should make a conscious choice to be a copywriter OR a content writer. They are two completely different skill sets.

I can't offer any advice on copywriting really. CopyBlogger is a great resource. You can also join the Cult of Copy group on Facebook; they have a subgroup dedicated to linking up copywriters with clients.

If you want to be a content writer, you have three options:

1. Work for a content mill
2. Work for an agency like WordAgents
3. Work directly with clients

Option 1 is super easy. Jump on fiverr and upwork and work for free or dirt cheap until your review profile matches the top writers on each platform for both quality and number of reviews. Then use those reviews and supply/demand as reason to raise your rates.

Option 2 is mindless. Get accepted by an agency and check your e-mails for new assignments. As long as you turn in good work and follow directions, you'll have a good supply of work.

Option 3 is the wildcard. Are you good with people? Do you have enough time every day to reach out to potential clients, answer 50+ emails, follow-up with warm leads, and everything else that goes into being a business owner....in addition to the daily research and writing you'll need to do as a writer? Being your own business requires a whole other set of skills in addition to writing.

 

[Dorsia]

I was thinking of using the skill/service/discipline tests they have. I scored in the top 1% by looking up the answers and practicing on dummy accounts (the tests are complete bullshit anyway, in my case it boiled down to knowing their interpretation of SEOMoz and whatever they overheard at some affiliate marketing convention), and that coupled with my five star review had me in the top 20 or so. I've since fallen way below that, I'm guessing more people got wise to being able to game their exams.

I didn't mention this because I don't have anywhere near scientific certainty on the effectiveness of taking their exams in terms of exposure via their search function. It goes without saying, this would depend on whether or not people hiring are using it to narrow their searches. Obviously if they're searching based on this criteria, they'll lend it some weight in determining who to hire as well.

All that aside, it might have just been my recent resurgence of activity that led to my inbox being blown up with skype interviews. I was more in the mindset of wanting to hit every opportunity I could, rather than taking my time and looking for ways to game their platform.

Other than that, I maxed out my about me section; again, that might be a good or a bad thing. If anything I'd think it would reflect poorly on me as a marketer, since I needed that much space to make my point, but maybe it'd work well since you're trying to show off writing talent in this case?

Without looking again, I'm assuming there's plenty of work to be done on the portfolio section of the profile.

Shit, you've got me wanting to look into doing this for some seed money now, lol. Different niche/service, of course.

But yeah, test the $60+ and hustle like a pimp for a week or two, see what that gets you. If it gets you an interview, it's up to you then whether to negotiate from there. FWIW I stuck with my quote on the Skype interview, and subsequently got paid what I pitched myself as being worth (I was nervous as hell, lol).

Also for what it's worth, I got the idea for this approach from a CCarter WF post.

 

[jayk]

I just responded to your PM. Shoot me that e-mail when you get the chance.

You should make a conscious choice to be a copywriter OR a content writer. They are two completely different skill sets.

I can't offer any advice on copywriting really. CopyBlogger is a great resource. You can also join the Cult of Copy group on Facebook; they have a subgroup dedicated to linking up copywriters with clients.

If you want to be a content writer, you have three options:

1. Work for a content mill
2. Work for an agency like WordAgents
3. Work directly with clients

I've tried working for the content mills. I ended up averaging around $2.50 per hour, and the work wasn't really sustainable, as far as finding consistent topics to write about on those sites.

If I could find consistent content writing work, I'd keep pursuing copy as a hobby, and something I could use in my own business down the line. I love copywriting, but content writing comes naturally for me and has a much quicker turnaround time, as far as completing the projects goes.

That being said, I think I'm somewhere in between category #2 and #3. I don't necessarily mind emailing, but where I'm at right now, I'd rather have consistent orders coming in each month. Consistency is a lot more important to me than making the absolute most money possible, at this time.

I joined the Cult Of Copy, and Bond Halbert's copywriting groups on Facebook a few weeks ago. That's where I received my first critique and pro-bono request. Those places are intimidating, though. Then when you add the possibility of being paid $1,000 to $10,000 for a piece of copy, self-doubt starts filling the grey matter.

But yeah, test the $60+ and hustle like a pimp for a week or two, see what that gets you. If it gets you an interview, it's up to you then whether to negotiate from there. FWIW I stuck with my quote on the Skype interview, and subsequently got paid what I pitched myself as being worth (I was nervous as hell, lol).

I've been using the Top 3% designation in my proposals, hoping that it would set me apart from the other applicants. Once my credits roll over, I'll be increasing my rates and seeing what happens. From the way it looks, though, after posting here, I may not need to deal with Upwork. You're right, though, I stay nervous when I start pitching myself, and asking for money.

 

[Dorsia]

I've been using the Top 3% designation in my proposals, hoping that it would set me apart from the other applicants. Once my credits roll over, I'll be increasing my rates and seeing what happens. From the way it looks, though, after posting here, I may not need to deal with Upwork. You're right, though, I stay nervous when I start pitching myself, and asking for money.

All the better then, you're in a group of way less than 550 peers then if you're in the top 3% for anything. Again, we're still making the assumption that this is of value, but it certainly doesn't hurt.

 

[Potatoe]

You can waste a bunch of time writing articles for a few bucks each, but if you're good you should just skip right past that point.

If you're going to write for clients, find clients that make money. If somebody already has an audience and can earn hundreds of dollars (Or thousands...) for each article you write them, and you can consistently do a good job and be rock solid, that's a lot nicer than writing about aquaponics or whatever for $8 an article for some goof who read a WSO that told them to take massive action by buying articles. Also the plus side about that is that you'll learn a lot in the process. Speaking from experience here. I started writing articles on Fiverr, and now I can earn over 100 times more for a post.

Then there's sites that will pay you based on performance. You can earn hundreds of dollars per article if you know how to write stuff that people want to read. The more people that want to read your work, the more you get paid... it's about as fair a deal as you're going to find. These sites basically fall into the 'writing for clients that already have an audience" category, and they're all asking for skilled writers to apply. They want to hire you right now, so don't give them any reasons not to.

- http://www.cracked.com/write-for-cracked/ (If you're funny)
- http://www.thesportster.com/contributor/ (If you're into sports)
- http://www.therichest.com/write-for-us/ (Celebrities etc)
- http://www.thethings.com/contributor/ (To write about Pinterest-y stuff)

Also be working on your own stuff in the meantime. Spend your time applying, then writing for clients, then at the end of the day when you can barely keep your eyes open and your brain feels fried, keep going because that'll be the difference between 'getting by' and 'making it out of the this writing-for-clients' hole.

As to why you're not getting much action on Upwork... Right now, Upwork is a DREAM for people that are hiring writers. There's absolutely no shortage of very skilled and experienced writers who have no idea what they're worth. It used to be a bunch of people from economically challenged countries applying for jobs for pennies on the dollar even though they barely spoke English, but now it's filled with Americans willing to work for very little money. So for whatever reason, I guess your application isn't as appealing or isn't the best application for the jobs you're applying for. If 20-30 people apply for a job, and the client hires 1, you really need to shine. You need to be the best. Nobody's choosing the second best applicant. Just personally, here are some things that have helped people get hired by me:

- They obviously read the job posting, answered any questions that were brought up, addressed any of my concerns.
- They briefly mentioned some relevant experience, gave a link to a past article.
- They offered to prepare a quick sample article based on my specs.
- They got to the point, I don't need to read a 500 word application.
- They followed up. I get sidetracked, forget about an application sometimes, etc... Once you've made initial contact, the ball is in your court until that contract comes through so don't just fuck off if you don't hear back right away.

If all else fails, there's a proud pimp around here somewhere who can probably put you on cam.

 

[jayk]

You can waste a bunch of time writing articles for a few bucks each, but if you're good you should just skip right past that point.

- They obviously read the job posting, answered any questions that were brought up, addressed any of my concerns.
- They briefly mentioned some relevant experience, gave a link to a past article.
- They offered to prepare a quick sample article based on my specs.
- They got to the point, I don't need to read a 500 word application.
- They followed up. I get sidetracked, forget about an application sometimes, etc... Once you've made initial contact, the ball is in your court until that contract comes through so don't just fuck off if you don't hear back right away.

Thanks for those tips. Right now, it looks like I may have been saved from Upwork, thanks to BuSo. If I have to venture back on there, I think it's going to be easier to get the gigs, following that outline. My question for this thread started off as "what makes you hire a writer?"

If all else fails, there's a proud pimp around here somewhere who can probably put you on cam.

Only if it's from the neck down. I've got dignity, ya' know?

 

[enslam]

You could try a site like https://www.iwriter.com/

It's kind of like upwork except that instead of the person looking for work picks the jobs that they want to work on for a designated dollar amount.

 

[jayk]

Yeah, that's one of the content farms I tried writing for. The work usually pays $3-$5 each piece, takes a couple hours to write, and then more work is hard to find again.

I didn't have much luck getting direct orders, even with raving reviews on my content.

To be honest, I'd rather go flip burgers for $7.50 an hour than write for iWriter, TextBroker, or any of the other 1cpw mills.

 

[Ryuzaki]

If you want to pursue writing, what I would do is set up a personal brand website, even if it's not a real person or just some variation of your real name if you are concerned with that type of thing. A name.com or name.me would geeter dun.

Then, I'd flat out offer to write some pieces for websites. I wouldn't ask for a link, I wouldn't even worry about an author box. I'd just ask that the piece be published. You could even come up with a code phrase to insert into these posts to prove that it's you if someone wants to be skeptical.

On your site, keep a list of these pieces of content and order them from most prestigious to least. Ultimately you'll probably start taking pieces off the bottom of the list as they become not worth mentioning any more.

Along with this, I'd go ahead and set up a Medium too so you can flex whatever skill you want in any topic you want. I'd set up all of the social network pages to promote each piece you publish, creating a giant web of "this is undoubtedly the guy, not someone faking."

Then you can sign up to the huge sites that offer a profit share per post. If that makes you nervous you can sign up to ones that offer a flat rate per post. Now you're continuing to build your portfolio while getting paid, and often times nicely if you can attune yourself to the audiences.

Ultimately, you can get rid of the single posts in your portfolio, maybe keep a few big winners if you sneak in something solid. But in the end what you can do is start linking to your author pages on other sites where you've published 10-100+ pieces of content.

In the end, you can leverage this portfolio however you want. You can go back to Upwork and those types of sites and be the guy with the craziest prices. The B2B buyers are a lot more free with their money in order to save time and ensure quality, and you'll jump write past the hobbyist buyers and hobbyist writers.

Beyond this, if you want to really start being sneaky, you can sign up to the sites that are huge but don't pay anything, and create your own pay. Go ahead and suck it up and write enough content that the editors stop worrying about you. Then offer to sell links on those sites, do-follow and no-follow, and be very selective about who you sell to so you don't burn your accounts. There's no lack of real buyers with legitimate businesses and websites willing to buy, that you can say no to every idiot with the "wool-christmas-socks.info" sites. Most of them will be priced out anyways, and if not, raise your price some more.

My point is, doing what everyone else is doing is going to get you nowhere. Buying advertising threads can get you some nice placements right off the bat while getting paid for it, building your portfolio. But just slinging some shit on Upwork and hoping someone bites isn't going to cut it. You've got to be very proactive if you intend to do this professionally. And all its going to take is a couple power moves and you'll jump ahead of 90% of writers. Then those open the door for more, and before you know it you're in the 1%.

 

[Potatoe]

Forget about all that iwriter hirewriters BS (Sounds like you already have, so this is to anyone else who sees this...). It's just a bunch of people trying to pass off spun content as their own for a couple of bucks to clients who don't know the difference and don't earn any money to buy decent content for their sites in the first place. One of the guys who has one of those stupid spinning software sites even has a guide encouraging his customers to sign up to those writing sites to try to sell spun content. Like WTF lol. These are all bottom of the barrel feeders, don't even associate with any of them. They're selling shovels, except instead of gold prospecting, they're selling shovels to people to move around manure. Does anyone want to be in business with people selling shit-shovels? Especially when we're still in the online gold rush? I fucking doubt it.

It's KIND OF okay if you're in a tight position and can bang out those $3-$4 articles in 10 minutes, but if you're spending hours on it... hit up those sites I linked and literally make 100x as much money instead.

 

[backwoods]

I'll do anything that will bring home the bacon, at this point. Those stats are crazy. Not sure exactly how to take them. I've set my rates on Upwork to $30 per hour, thinking that was "baller" lol ;/

Did you apply to their "Pro" writer service? I would definitely do that if you haven't.

https://pro.upwork.com/writers.html?channel=client_page

How is Pro different from Upwork.com?

Pro has been created with the goal of connecting the best clients and opportunities with the best writers on Upwork. We do the hard work of finding great clients and projects and presenting them directly to you. You’ll also unlock access to projects with our Enterprise clients.

 

[jayk]

If you want to pursue writing, what I would do is set up a personal brand website, even if it's not a real person or just some variation of your real name if you are concerned with that type of thing. A name.com or name.me would geeter dun.

Then, I'd flat out offer to write some pieces for websites. I wouldn't ask for a link, I wouldn't even worry about an author box. I'd just ask that the piece be published. You could even come up with a code phrase to insert into these posts to prove that it's you if someone wants to be skeptical.

On your site, keep a list of these pieces of content and order them from most prestigious to least. Ultimately you'll probably start taking pieces off the bottom of the list as they become not worth mentioning any more.

Along with this, I'd go ahead and set up a Medium too so you can flex whatever skill you want in any topic you want. I'd set up all of the social network pages to promote each piece you publish, creating a giant web of "this is undoubtedly the guy, not someone faking."

Then you can sign up to the huge sites that offer a profit share per post. If that makes you nervous you can sign up to ones that offer a flat rate per post. Now you're continuing to build your portfolio while getting paid, and often times nicely if you can attune yourself to the audiences.

Ultimately, you can get rid of the single posts in your portfolio, maybe keep a few big winners if you sneak in something solid. But in the end what you can do is start linking to your author pages on other sites where you've published 10-100+ pieces of content.

In the end, you can leverage this portfolio however you want. You can go back to Upwork and those types of sites and be the guy with the craziest prices. The B2B buyers are a lot more free with their money in order to save time and ensure quality, and you'll jump write past the hobbyist buyers and hobbyist writers.

Beyond this, if you want to really start being sneaky, you can sign up to the sites that are huge but don't pay anything, and create your own pay. Go ahead and suck it up and write enough content that the editors stop worrying about you. Then offer to sell links on those sites, do-follow and no-follow, and be very selective about who you sell to so you don't burn your accounts. There's no lack of real buyers with legitimate businesses and websites willing to buy, that you can say no to every idiot with the "wool-christmas-socks.info" sites. Most of them will be priced out anyways, and if not, raise your price some more.

My point is, doing what everyone else is doing is going to get you nowhere. Buying advertising threads can get you some nice placements right off the bat while getting paid for it, building your portfolio. But just slinging some shit on Upwork and hoping someone bites isn't going to cut it. You've got to be very proactive if you intend to do this professionally. And all its going to take is a couple power moves and you'll jump ahead of 90% of writers. Then those open the door for more, and before you know it you're in the 1%.

Baller. I just printed that out. Gracias dude! (or dudette)

Forget about all that iwriter hirewriters BS (Sounds like you already have, so this is to anyone else who sees this...). It's just a bunch of people trying to pass off spun content as their own for a couple of bucks to clients who don't know the difference and don't earn any money to buy decent content for their sites in the first place. One of the guys who has one of those stupid spinning software sites even has a guide encouraging his customers to sign up to those writing sites to try to sell spun content. Like WTF lol. These are all bottom of the barrel feeders, don't even associate with any of them. They're selling shovels, except instead of gold prospecting, they're selling shovels to people to move around manure. Does anyone want to be in business with people selling shit-shovels? Especially when we're still in the online gold rush? I fucking doubt it.

It's KIND OF okay if you're in a tight position and can bang out those $3-$4 articles in 10 minutes, but if you're spending hours on it... hit up those sites I linked and literally make 100x as much money instead.

Exactly what I was finding on those sites. I'm thinking if I produced spun junk, I probably would have landed more gigs lol I'm over it, though.

Did you apply to their "Pro" writer service? I would definitely do that if you haven't.

https://pro.upwork.com/writers.html?channel=client_page

How is Pro different from Upwork.com?

Pro has been created with the goal of connecting the best clients and opportunities with the best writers on Upwork. We do the hard work of finding great clients and projects and presenting them directly to you. You’ll also unlock access to projects with our Enterprise clients.

I never knew about the Pro on Upwork. I am going to get what they need together, and submit my application. Thanks man!

 

[backwoods]

I never knew about the Pro on Upwork. I am going to get what they need together, and submit my application. Thanks man!

Nice Keep us updated your experience with Pro.

I actually just discovered the Pro Upwork network when I got an email from PayPal promoting a free 3-month trial to their vetted recruiting service. I never knew this even existed. They charge $149/mo + 10% service fee on every payment.

The Pro basically does all the work in finding you the best-of-the-best programmers, designers, writers, etc.

What are the benefits of Upwork Pro vs the standard Upwork Marketplace?

With Upwork Pro, you get dedicated customer service and access to top quality freelancers who are often unavailable on the regular platform. Talent specialists help you find the perfect match for your needs.

 

[jayk]

Definitely! I've got a few gigs I've gotta fulfill first, then I'll figure out what all they've got to offer. I have been wanting to start a journey thread, but thankfully I got too swamped! Blessing in disguise, thank you BuSo!