Experiences Going Against the Accepted Narrative?

[Positivity]

This post is a bit out there, but something that I am struggling with at this point in time. I've reached out to a senior member of this site already for some thoughts on the topic, and received some really good feedback. I'd like to get more feedback from other senior members as well, if possible.

I will attempt to keep this purposefully vague in order to remain as anonymous as possible.

Basically, I currently attend a top institution that leads to a very secure, guaranteed middle-class life style. It is an extremely risk-adverse life path that most people would be happy to take. Middle of the road, I would be making a comfortable 300k-400k gross by 35.

However, I want to go to the top. This post sounds cocky, but it's not meant to be. I want 'fuck you' money. I want freedom.

This past summer I had a few weeks off. During that time, I was putting in a consistent 16-18 hours a day on my projects. I loved every minute of it. I have had small successes online so far $x,xxx, but nothing big.

Bottom line, I want to go for it. I want to say fuck it and jump ship and start aggressively pursuing online entrepreneurship. I know everyone says they work hard, but I won't let a single person outwork me. I don't use facebook. I don't text. I don't watch youtube videos. I don't party. I don't care. I want the money and that's it.

However, I realize that plenty of people online are completely full of shit and claim to make way more than they have ever even seen.

To the senior guys out there currently killing it: what are your thoughts? What would you choose? Anything you can offer will give me some things to think about.

 

[Ryuzaki]

However, I realize that plenty of people online are completely full of shit and claim to make way more than they have ever even seen.

Yes, and most of them pretending to be full time aren't. And most full-time aren't killing it like you'd think. I'm certainly not where I want to be by any means.

Don't think of your path as binary where it's either/or. Having the education you're talking about will be priceless to fall back on, because not everyone makes it. Your goals may change as you age. You might want a family and it'll be more important to provide stability.

The way I see it is that if you can walk out of college and start earning 300k, then that's what I'd do. I'd be working on my authority white hat website in the meantime. And when I started earning ungodly amounts of money, I'd blow a good 200k of that in one year on content, editorial links, promotion, whatever.

You're talking about starting at ground zero, in the trenches. Or you can take advantage of that earning potential to outsource 1000x more than you'd ever achieve full-time. And THEN when your website outpaces your day job, you can jump ship from the job, or hang in there even longer and pump more money into the project.

The Outsourcing & Automation post in the Crash Course says it all... the barrier to most everything is money, because the true barrier is time and energy and your time and energy are very finite. The only thing that causes time and energy to scale is money.

For me, in your shoes, the answer is "both." And you'll jump far ahead of the curve immediately. Cash flow is the god of growth.

 

[Positivity]

For me, in your shoes, the answer is "both." And you'll jump far ahead of the curve immediately. Cash flow is the god of growth.

Makes sense. The only issue, is that my current option is extremely binding and I won't be able to make the big bucks until 30-31. Until then I will be making an average salary.

 

[animalstyle]

How would you balance learning through hustle and learning through throwing cash at it?

 

[Positivity]

How would you balance learning through hustle and learning through throwing cash at it?

Not sure if I completely understand your question, but I would definitely err on the side of doing things successfully myself first, before outsourcing, so that I know what to look for when hiring others.

 

[animalstyle]

I've actually re-read Ryu's post again. I thought he suggested taking the high paying job and investing the earnings into a site initially, but instead he said once you're banking to invest.

I'm just curious how much time vs money should be invested in the inital hustle/learning phase and how / when to make the transition to max outsourcing.

 

[Positivity]

I've actually re-read Ryu's post again. I thought he suggested taking the high paying job and investing the earnings into a site initially, but instead he said once you're baking to invest.

I'm just curious how much time vs money should be invested in the inital hustle/learning phase and how / when to make the transition to max outsourcing.

Kind of misses the point of this thread, but I'd outsource as soon as I reached a certain level of competency in that given area.

 

[CCarter]

Basically, I currently attend a top institution that leads to a very secure, guaranteed middle-class life style. It is an extremely risk-adverse life path that most people would be happy to take. Middle of the road, I would be making a comfortable 300k-400k gross by 35.

Good luck with mediocrity.

However, I realize that plenty of people online are completely full of shit and claim to make way more than they have ever even seen.

Man... if you saw half the shit I've seen. It's more like 99% are full of shit and high schoolers or bullshitters wasting time with video game coins or some get rich quick scheme cause they lack discipline to focus on a dream or even conjure a original idea.

The one thing you claim to have is the Focus, which is more important than anything else, cause in this world it's very difficult with all these distractions and social/society bullshit to stay on task.

I don't agree with @Ryuzaki's plan B scenario, cause I've seen people never focus on their actual projects cause they got comfortable in their 9 to 5 grind. Everyone in plan B IMO, literally 99% of the developing world's whole lives are in plan B mode. Go to college to get "something to fall back on", problem is with the "fall back on scenario" is they NEVER leap in order to even fall cause they got comfortable, started dating, and then priorities changed to kids, changing diapers and something called stability.

The reason people want stability is because they are scared of the unknown and uncertainty that this life brings. It's why they go to church on Sundays and pray to god there is an afterlife where they get to enjoy their life... AFTER they are dead. What kind of logic is that?

"You motherfuckers living like half of your level, half of your life" - Kanye West​

If you want safety and stability go for the mediocre 9 to 5, plan B life. To know where you'll be in 50 years just look at the 99% of the other older generation of people around you and ask yourself if that endgame is what you want your end game to be.

You have 1 life, there is no plan B, this isn't a video game where you can start over. If you don't take risks now, especially why you are young as you get older you'll get lullied to sleep by this society which wants you to fantasize that you are in a nice warm crib and safe for your whole life and nothing will harm you.

You can't skydive out a plane without jumping out of a plane. You can sit there in the plane trying to plan B it, plan C it, plan D it to death, but there is a door open and you have to jump at some point.

Some of yall need to wake up and start taking a lot more risks in life, cause you can't get to the top of the tallest mountain through a mediocre route. There is no Plan B in my world cause I barely have a Plan A,

"The road to success is always under construction" - Dan Peña​

If you do the plan B shit you will never have a "perfect time" to get out of your comfort zone to take the risk you should have taken early on in life.

You need to go all in, and keep going all in, failure after failure, learning from each failure, and stop thinking about this "safety" net that does not really exist.

They use what you fear AGAINST YOU. Your fear of death. Your fear of imprisonment. Where in this world is anyone safe from death? You see the lies you've been told? The path you take is not your own. - Preacher from Belly (Quote starts at 3:08 Safe From Death)​

You can get hit by a truck tomorrow and die - no imaginary "safety net" will stop that truck from hitting you. As long as you have one life, why not do what you love, have fun doing it, and be the best you can be at your craft - I mean it's one life and you owe it to yourself to see how far you can push yourself.

The problem is no one wants to give 100% of themselves since they think they will fail and it will crush their spirit. I've failed dozens of times and I can tell you after each failure I was momentarily doubtful but then I remembered I was the manifestation of perfection and out of nothing came greatness and into nothing greatness will go when I leave this plane of existence. So for now, why not be great?

You can be gone tomorrow, so why aren't you giving the best of yourself in your potential final battle on this earth? If you come at everything as if it is your final battle on this earth and the results matter very little, you'll have the freedom in knowing you can give 100% of your energy and focus, tap the manifested perfection from within and go at the obstacle like a beast. And then whether in victory or defeat, you can say you truly gave it your all and lay down and die, but if you wake up tomorrow, do it all over again. That way on the day you die, you will know that the final battle you had, you gave it the respect it deserved, 100% of your ability, pure perfection.

"You have little time left, and none of it for crap. A fine state. I would say that the best of us always comes out when we are against the wall, when we feel the sword dangling overhead. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way." - Carlos Castaneda, Tales of Power​

OR, you can go down the mediocre route and run and complain in skype chats that CCarter is bringing to much realism and reality to your imaginary world where you have forever to live. The reality is you don't have forever, and when you do get on top, someone better and stronger and younger will come and crush you out of existence, but for a moment you were the absolute best of the best and went head to head with Titans, instead of battling your 2.0 GPA office manager for an extra 15 min on your lunch breaks.

 

[Ryuzaki]

I agree with @CCarter and would like to clarify my position.

If your goal is to live an authentic, adventurous life of genuine passion, pain, exploration, and putting your balls on the chopping block... then you know what to do. Start now and never look back. This is when the journey is the destination.

If your goal is more about making crazy amounts of cash, I can tell you that the number of people jumping in at ground level with nothing to back them up and starting to pull 300k a year is very miniscule. However, if those very same people had 100k to live off of so there were zero stressors to worry about their investments, and they could take 200k as starting capital, they'd quickly turn that into a recurring revenue of 300k. And that's an opportunity you have before you. If you're confident you could pull that off with that level of funding you can STILL quit now and go take out a loan.

So in the end CCarter is right. *mumble grumble*

 

[Positivity]

I don't agree with @Ryuzaki's plan B scenario, cause I've seen people never focus on their actual projects cause they got comfortable in their 9 to 5 grind.

Everything you said has merit, and I appreciate your input. The only thing that worries me, is that it's the same type of rhetoric we've all heard before: "just go for it and follow your passions." I'm trying to get to point B from point A; if I have to make sacrifices and work in banking/tech for several years to position myself effectively, and that's what it's going to take, I'll do it.

My end goal is clearly online entrepreneurship. However, I don't want to be naive here and think I'm a special snowflake, different from anyone else who once had a dream. I think risk-aversion may have some credibility at the onset, due to the level of returns from pursuing such a path in the very beginning. I think this is what Ryuzaki was pointing to.

Really appreciate your input.

 

[built]

Was somewhat in the same boat. Deciding on whether to study or not. Since then I've pretty much accepted my fate. I either make it or I don't.

And I'm pretty confident I'm going to make it because I won't give up

 

[dresden]

I got in early - in fact, I started doing this in 2002 when I was in high school. I've got a lot of skin in the game. Was going to attend law school and everything. Scholarships, the whole 9.

I said fuckit. And pushed, pushed pushed. I wish I could say it was sheer gravity of my balls that pulled me into this world, but it was probably laziness and luck. I already had projects providing cashflow and I was pretty happy with the lifestyle I had created.

My mind processes & rewrites your question as "I know a lot of people that have been doing this a long time have made a shitload of money, can I still do that today?". The answer is yes. There are so many paths to wealth online that it's often difficult for new people to see the forest for the trees.

What can you do? Code? SEO? Market? Biz dev?

Depending on your skillset, I see a lot of opportunities, every day, that a new person can get into. It's just a matter of picking one and fucking EXECUTING. My bone to pick with 99% of the 'internet marketing' crowd is that they spend more time on warriorforum / whatever and checking rankings and stats and buying / learning the next new trick than they do actually doing something. Just sit down, be realistic with your skillset (if it sucks, define a new one and attain it) and define your end goal picture. Is it one ecommerce site? Is it a VC funded startup? Is it a network of spam sites that you're going to be churning and burning every 3 blinks of a lambs eye?

You've got to know where you're going before you can map your trip. Define that end game as explicitly as possible. Then every day when you wake up, look at it and say, OK, what's the single most important thing I can do right now toward that endgame? Do it. And then do the next one. Repeat until the sun goes down.

Don't get caught fucking with stats and busy work - be fearless, do big things and act as if you've been there before. The attitude difference between successful people and new people boils down to timidity. Successful people have actually done it before and have a "why couldnt it?" attitude. New people have that "i could never do that" attitude. You have no idea how many wins I've had because my competition can't man up and pick up the phone and call and ask for an initial PO. Or won't approach the big fish at the conference and ask for a partnership. It makes me legit LOL when I do mentoring or chat with another entrepreneur and they say shit like "well that partner is too big, they'd never go for it". I always ask, "have you asked them?". You can guess the answer.

So to answer your question again, with a qualifier: yes, you can do it. If you know what you want, you'll know what you need to do. Then do that until you get it.

 

[CCarter]

Really appreciate your input.

I hate to say this, but you'll never get out of your day job with this mentality. You just won't. 5 years will pass, then 10, then 20, then 40, then next thing you know you'll be having your first grandkid and think back... and you'll recall this conversation. Then and only then will you know deep down inside whether you chose the right path in your life.

This life isn't for everyone, especially those that think there is big rewards WHILE being risk-averse, rewards and risk-averse are a contradiction.

"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong." - Ayn Rand​

Risk-Averse means low rewards. You'll be playing the safe zone your whole life. AND the biggest mistake you are making right now IS thinking that the CURRENT opportunities, whether it's SEO or cheap traffic will still exist in 5 or 10 years from now and you'll just be able to jump in. Look at the landscape 5 years ago, SEO was an easy walk in the park, then Panda and Penguin hit and only the strong survived. Do you think it's going to get easier?

Right now there is a gold-rush like in the wild west days on the internet. BUT it CANNOT last forever. The gold will be mined by those who took the risk. You think in the wild west days when people were traveling west to find gold they said "wait, I'll first go get a job, save up a $200-$300K then head out west..." NO. They picked up their shit and went, with no money. Imagine going into the wilderness with no stores, or source of food except whatever you can kill, with no roads, and city infrastructure, no building and just with a tent looking for gold. That's some serious fucking risk, but there was gold to be mined.

What happens when you get your $300K job, you'll have a lifestyle that's worth $300K with bills, house payments, and all sort of shit which will chain you down, do you honestly believe if you start dating some one they are going to be fine with taking a cut in lifestyle or even YOU are going to be fine with taking a cut in lifestyle to living off of zero dollars for 1-3 years before your projects get off the ground as you see your savings dwindling?

Your fallacy is you believe there will be gold here forever AND that the current techniques of mining the gold will last until you get back in the game. There are going to be new techniques, new players, new competitors who are younger, stronger, and take more risk in a single day than you have in your life up till that moment you get back in the game. Do you believe you can win? I know if I was lulled to sleep into a comfortable living for 5 or 10 years there is no way I'll ever be able to get the entrepreneurial spirit back.

That hustling spirit needs to be fed, and if you can't figure out or come to the conclusion in your mind RIGHT NOW that you can make it, you won't. You aren't a hustler or entrepreneur, not really, and you know it, you know it deep down, cause real entrepreneurs don't think about the risk over the rewards, they always think about the rewards, disregard the risk, AND know they have the drive to keep fighting even during the darkest moments. You can't turn on the hustler spirit once it's off, either you are in the mode or not, and once it's off, it will NEVER come back. It just won't because you were defeated by your fear.

You should probably honestly stick to your day job path and erase the idea of making riches with the internet monies from your mind, cause you are risk-averse.

 

[Positivity]

That hustling spirit needs to be fed, and if you can't figure out or come to the conclusion in your mind RIGHT NOW that you can make it, you won't. You aren't a hustler or entrepreneur, not really, and you know it, you know it deep down, cause real entrepreneurs don't think about the risk over the rewards, they always think about the rewards, disregard the risk, AND know they have the drive to keep fighting even during the darkest moments. You can't turn on the hustler spirit once it's off, either you are in the mode or not, and once it's off, it will NEVER come back. It just won't because you were defeated by your fear.

You should probably honestly stick to your day job path and erase the idea of making riches with the internet monies from your mind, cause you are risk-averse.

Again, I really appreciate your time. However, this needs to be addressed, as you are making a lot of large assumptions. I am in a position to pivot into a multitude of paths; I just want to be sure because once I choose, I'm burning the fucking boats and charging forward.

Was going to attend law school and everything. Scholarships, the whole 9.

Roger. Thanks for your angle.

Was somewhat in the same boat. Deciding on whether to study or not. Since then I've pretty much accepted my fate. I either make it or I don't.

And I'm pretty confident I'm going to make it because I won't give up

Right on. Thanks.

 

[Positivity]

For anyone who gave advice in this thread, I went for it. Thanks for calling me out. The only way now is straight forward as fast as I can.

 

[turbin3]

Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom nor technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.

-Tsunetomo Yamamoto, from Hagakure

 

[miketpowell]

Middle of the road, I would be making a comfortable 300k-400k gross by 35.

Here is some quick advice. You are completely off base here on your concept of what is possible. Even if you are planning to become a Dr in a high paying specialty you really cannot be sure. I knew plenty of people in college that thought their degree was going to walk them right into a 60k-80k year position and they'd be making 100k in a few years and just keep going from there. It did not work out quite like that.

Being at a top school helps but still I'd wager the median income at 35 of full time working graduates from your school is still less than 100k. Making 300-400k gross at 35 is not middle of the road. That's above 99% percentile income threshold for that age.

If you think 300-400k is just "comfortable" you really need to get into internet marketing. Because what you make in the working world is just going to depress you.

Also FYI it's very possible to make bank even with all the fakers. There is just gobs of money in this industry and it's easy to make it if you know what you are doing and willing to work and be disciplined.