Should I do Oxford?

[Marc]

I'm finishing highschool in an year and I have got a stellar CV/application. I'm currently living in Bucharest, Romania ( East Europe ). Want to move to study in UK, and I can get into Oxford. Should I do it?

Basically, this is a pretty important, life-changing decision. Here are my two options :

- Apply to Oxford, Computer Sciences. Study 2-3 months for the entry exam called MAT then study the rest of the year for my highschool final exam ( 3 subjects, I need an average of 90/100 to get in ). Then spend the next 3-4 years somehow staying in this top tier uni, going to the gym, managing a business/being a freelancer ( cause I have got to pay for myself, everything ), and having a social life. That might be hell.

- Apply to a lower tier uni in UK, Computer Sciences. Only study for the highschool final exam, and then maybe student life will be easier there so I can manage getting the money for living/paying student fees, learning and living.

I really want to go to university. I know that the current "trend" among people that manage to do stuff with their lives before they turn 18 or leave highschool is to not go to uni because people think that it's wasted time. I agree, I waste time re-learning stuff I need because I'm already qualified to work in my line of work. But living for 17 years with my father who went the "Bill Gates" way, quit uni because he was offered a great position making bank just to lose it all a couple years down the line is not the way to go. I don't care about wasting 3 years of my life because that university degree is going to be my fallback for getting a job in case something happens.

My plan was getting a computer sciences degree in the UK, then coming back to East Europe and live here, working remotely. That is, in case none of my businesses succeed. Cost of living ( rent, food, etc. ) a comfortable life here is $1000/month. That is, 3 meals a day at restaurants, a great apartment, etc.
Freelancing, I could get $30-$40/hr by working remotely, that would place me into the top what, 1% of my country? Maybe even less. I'd live an amazing life.

But should I waste this year and another 3-4 for an Oxford degree? That is my question. I really don't know how much this all counts, I just know Oxford is prestige and people's eyes blink dollar signs when they see it. You guys tell me, I'm a kid.

 

[Calamari]

Go to college. Go to Oxford. I know it's not fashionable to to go to college an a board full of the entrepreneurial spirit, but I don't give a shit. You can still moonlight as an entrepreneur while earning a degree.

 

[CCarter]

I agree with @Calamari, I would go to Oxford.

However you also have some logic problems when referring to your father and Bill Gates. Bill Gates and even Mark Zuckerberg both when to Harvard and dropped out to start "THEIR OWN COMPANY", not to get a job working for someone else. Starting your own company, being an entrepreneur, is completely different then getting a job working for someone else. At their own companies they have more control of their destiny, extremely hard for them to get fired there.

At the same time, when they were in school the met people there that allowed them to create the companies they started. I would definitely go to Oxford for the connections cause that's going to be way more valuable then not going and sticking to logo design and website design. The reality is the business is "Good" but not great enough and worth pursuing in lieu of an Oxford degree or any degree. The competitive environment is high and the barrier to entry is extremely low - so you are a dime a dozen. But if you go to a university you can meet people with connections and learn about industries and fields that have a higher barrier to entry and have connection to resources you wouldn't have by simply going down the no college route.

When you are in school you can then make the "quit like Bill Gates" decision when you come across an idea that's way better then your current operation (not a job). I'm not trying to knock what you are doing, but when making a decision like this you need a realistic voice telling you the pros and cons of your business and the potential opportunities you are throwing away cause of trending wisdom.

Anyone that tells you not to go to Oxford to pursue creating logos and website design is out of their minds and isn't thinking about the competitive environment in 5 to 10 years from now. 5 to 10 years from now do you really want to be making logos, working on client work, or working on something that is some next level shit with connections and resources to take it to an even higher level? Get the computer science degree.

 

[RiverStyx]

If you get in I'd go to Oxford, my SO went to Cambridge and it really does impress employers. I'm in that area myself so you can always PM if you need some local help!

 

[Marc]

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I agree with @Calamari, I would go to Oxford.

However you also have some logic problems when referring to your father and Bill Gates. Bill Gates and even Mark Zuckerberg both when to Harvard and dropped out to start "THEIR OWN COMPANY", not to get a job working for someone else. Starting your own company, being an entrepreneur, is completely different then getting a job working for someone else. At their own companies they have more control of their destiny, extremely hard for them to get fired there.

At the same time, when they were in school the met people there that allowed them to create the companies they started. I would definitely go to Oxford for the connections cause that's going to be way more valuable then not going and sticking to logo design and website design. The reality is the business is "Good" but not great enough and worth pursuing in lieu of an Oxford degree or any degree. The competitive environment is high and the barrier to entry is extremely low - so you are a dime a dozen. But if you go to a university you can meet people with connections and learn about industries and fields that have a higher barrier to entry and have connection to resources you wouldn't have by simply going down the no college route.

When you are in school you can then make the "quit like Bill Gates" decision when you come across an idea that's way better then your current operation (not a job). I'm not trying to knock what you are doing, but when making a decision like this you need a realistic voice telling you the pros and cons of your business and the potential opportunities you are throwing away cause of trending wisdom.

Anyone that tells you not to go to Oxford to pursue creating logos and website design is out of their minds and isn't thinking about the competitive environment in 5 to 10 years from now. 5 to 10 years from now do you really want to be making logos, working on client work, or working on something that is some next level shit with connections and resources to take it to an even higher level? Get the computer science degree.

This is the kind of reply I wanted. A final question would be, should I go Oxford in lieu of an easier to get in and easier to pass uni?

If you get in I'd go to Oxford, my SO went to Cambridge and it really does impress employers. I'm in that area myself so you can always PM if you need some local help!

My only question is : did your SO have any free time? I do not want to give up going to the gym 6 times a week, having my own remote business and having a social life. I am aware that I might have to let go of these, but maybe proper time management could keep me sane.

 

[Ryuzaki]

Your social time will need to become group study time, going to the gym with a partner, etc. You'll definitely have to start killing two birds with one stone. You might have to reduce the frequency of times you go to the gym. Your remote business may have to limit the number of orders it takes or you'll have to bring on more people. I can imagine there's going to be a ton of "busy work" thrown at you constantly, not only with your core coursework but especially with the generalized classes you'll be made to take. Those professors more than others seem to like to push harder to compensate for not being taken as seriously.

You're not going to be able to tack on Oxford on top of everything else and not have it disrupted. You can assume you'll be in class or waiting on class to start for 5 hours, five times a week, and probably an hour or two of study per hour you're in class. I'd expect at least an additional 40 hours of school related obligations, if not 50-60, on top of everything else you're talking about.

 

[CCarter]

This is the kind of reply I wanted. A final question would be, should I go Oxford in lieu of an easier to get in and easier to pass uni?

I'd go to Oxford and fuck all that other social shit. You can re-connect with friends and get back in the gym and whatever, but you aren't going to get a "better" education, and what you are after is the prestige anyways.

This is one of those things that I would recommend going 100% at. Not half-assing it worried about friends, gym, and the business to be honest. The whole point is to elevate yourself to another level, what you'll soon realize is those friends you have now aren't going to be around in 4 years. You'll have a new set of friends. Then the cycle goes on 4 years after college is over, and so on. As you grow up the reality is friendships will wither and die, and others will blossom, just like anything in this life.

I don't really talk to anyone I went to high school with, even the closest ones, some got jobs overseas, other got married and have children, and the friends outside of school I had we also simply grew apart cause that's what time does. So the question is - what's important to you? I'd go for elevating yourself and going the selfish route versus trying to go the "let's have fun route and going to the gym". (Looking at your photos, are you sure you even lift bro? j/k)

 

[Calamari]

It's hard for me to explain why Oxford is better than easier colleges without sounding like an asshole but...

It's a lot easier to learn how to make rich people money from kids that came from rich families than it is from middle class kids at easier schools.

I'm not even sure how to phrase that so it makes sense. But learning how rich kids think about making money is one way of "elevating yourself" as CCarter put it. You can't learn that from kids raised in middle class families. It's a mindset that has to be learned.

It's why the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer. The rich only know how to be rich, the middle class only know how to be middle class, and the poor only know how to be poor.

This post needs a disclaimer about me making generalizations about all the kids in elite colleges.

I'm going to reluctantly hit "Post Reply" and wait here for people to flame me.

 

[Stephen]

I would only go if you want to use the qualification and I mean really use it. My sister went and has not really used it and if you look at the time and money spent it was a huge waste other than the nice parts of having had the experience. Oxford is a great town and the kudos of having an Oxford education is very useful, but do not do it unless you really want to use the qualification. If learning is more important over the vanity of the college then find a cheaper and possibly better establishment.

 

[miketpowell]

I wouldn't say it's 100% you should go to Oxford - you should only go there if you believe you are going to succeed there. If you go to Oxford and struggle to pass your classes and hover in the bottom 20 percentile of the students you'd be better off being in the top 3 percentile at an "easier" school. Data and studies show this pretty conclusively, if you want some examples I think they covered it quite a bit in "Think Like A Freak".

But the basic point is going from being top dog in HS to struggling at the bottom isn't good for anyone mentally. Nothing can kill someone's favorite subject they've always been great at like throwing them together with 20 other people that will always beat you without even really trying. None of the amazing benefits or networking really exist for the kids at those schools that are barely getting by.

This IMHO is also the best argument against affirmative action, it flat out doesn't work or help a student to stick them into a college they are under qualified for academically and they are less likely to succeed then if they had gone to an easier school.

So my answers would be go to Oxford if you know you can do great at that school. If you really struggled to get in or were an "affirmative action" acceptance I'd think more about going to another easier school. The world of education is not like business. It's better to be a big fish in a small pond, at least to start undergrad.

 

[Prentzz]

Can't agree more with @Calamari . Coming from a highschool where a large proportion went to Oxford and Cambridge there is a huge difference between having Oxford on your resume than Bristol, despite the fact that they are equally good for many courses. If you are going to study CS I would suggest looking at Cambridge as opposed to Oxford however. Cambridge is more impressive for maths/science courses whereas Oxford generally for liberal arts, similar to MIT vs Yale I think.

I'm not sure if you have some sort of hook up to get into Oxford or something but getting in isn't easy by any stretch. I know a lot of people who didn't get in who are ridiculously smart and had great CV's. If not you could also look at Warwick, Bristol or like UCL. Too many hours have been spent looking through universities.

Edit: Free time is sort of a myth at Oxford and Cambridge. You will be working all the time. Their term times are MUCH shorter than other universities because they ram the course into 8 weeks as opposed to 12 (?). I have a friend who dropped out of Cambridge because the workload meant he had no time to socialize. But honestly imo it's worth it. Until you've seen it happen you can't really understand how much the prestige can help tbh

 

[Marc]

Can't agree more with @Calamari . Coming from a highschool where a large proportion went to Oxford and Cambridge there is a huge difference between having Oxford on your resume than Bristol, despite the fact that they are equally good for many courses. If you are going to study CS I would suggest looking at Cambridge as opposed to Oxford however. Cambridge is more impressive for maths/science courses whereas Oxford generally for liberal arts, similar to MIT vs Yale I think.

I'm not sure if you have some sort of hook up to get into Oxford or something but getting in isn't easy by any stretch. I know a lot of people who didn't get in who are ridiculously smart and had great CV's. If not you could also look at Warwick, Bristol or like UCL. Too many hours have been spent looking through universities.

Edit: Free time is sort of a myth at Oxford and Cambridge. You will be working all the time. Their term times are MUCH shorter than other universities because they ram the course into 8 weeks as opposed to 12 (?). I have a friend who dropped out of Cambridge because the workload meant he had no time to socialize. But honestly imo it's worth it. Until you've seen it happen you can't really understand how much the prestige can help tbh

http://www.topuniversities.com/univ...region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search=

Also, Cambridge's STEP exam would require me to learn a totally different sylabus, while Oxford's MAT is similar to what we've been learning. Cambridge usually asks for 95-96/100 on my final exams while Oxford asks for 90/100. The choice was obvious.

 

[Prentzz]

http://www.topuniversities.com/univ...region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search=

Also, Cambridge's STEP exam would require me to learn a totally different sylabus, while Oxford's MAT is similar to what we've been learning. Cambridge usually asks for 95-96/100 on my final exams while Oxford asks for 90/100. The choice was obvious.

Makes sense but the rankings change every 5 seconds and are very subjective, its generally accepted that Cambridge is superior for science/maths. But at the end of the day Cambridge vs Oxford isn't a huge difference most of the time. STEP is tough but doable. From what I remember they make you take STEP I, II and III. How have you found MAT preparation? Good luck man

 

[Chumbawamba]

Go to Oxford just to piss off UKIP IMO

 

[juliantrueflynn]

I wouldn't say it's 100% you should go to Oxford - you should only go there if you believe you are going to succeed there. If you go to Oxford and struggle to pass your classes and hover in the bottom 20 percentile of the students you'd be better off being in the top 3 percentile at an "easier" school. Data and studies show this pretty conclusively, if you want some examples I think they covered it quite a bit in "Think Like A Freak".

Thank god someone else said it before me.

I know people who went to Oxford and or Ivy League schools here in USA, it's a mixed bag of results. I dropped out of a public college that isn't prestigious so take my insight here with a grain of salt.

I'm for surrounding yourself with people who inspire you to be your best at something. Where I'm clashing is if college is the best way to do this or needed (especially in our business area).

This relies on being able to notice your strengths/weaknesses and then picking a road. My style of learning and a classroom doesn't mix, plus I can't give focus to projects I don't want to read about. So, as far as results with either path you take I have to give the cliche answer of 'it depends on the person'.

 

[turbin3]

CCarter +100

I'd say if you can make Oxford happen, and you can devote 100% of your focus to it and fully taking advantage of the opportunity, DO IT, and set all that other stuff aside.

Here's the thing. The fundamental knowledge, the technique, the application....most of that can be learned relatively anywhere (not necessarily with all vocations). The value of an opportunity with a prestigious institution like Oxford, is in the relationships you can build, opportunities you can open up, and the behaviors you can learn that can lead to developing the habits that will lead to success. Most of the nuts and bolts you can learn anywhere, and for far cheaper. Don't get me wrong, you WILL learn fundamentals and advanced academics there as well. Just keep in mind that you aren't just there to learn things, a large part of it is learning to gain new perceptions and behaviors.

 

[j_b]

A bit late to this thread but seriously - if you can get into Oxford - do it. I have several friends that have graduated from Oxbridge and it will undoubtably open a lot of doors for you. Yes, there will be time to work out, there is a large social club/sports team element to these unis.

As far as the business goes, you'll have to figure that out when you're there. A big positive to the web-design is that you can take on as much or little work as you can handle and fit it around your schedule.

(PS. The grades are the easy part -- the interview is what will decide whether are admitted or not. Good luck!)

 

[Island]

Maybe take a year off?

And during that year just try to get really good at time management. Like try to work long hours, while balancing a social life, and gym. You really need to cut out the slack.

I find people who are amaizng at time management are extremely productivte and still are healthy and maintain a social life. Obviously there's a limit, but there's a ton more we could do.

Your average college student's productivity sucks balls.