Shower thought: Reddit circle jerk - bad or good idea?

[TheHound]

I was thinking if there are a few of us trying to promote on reddit we could set up a little group where we agree to up vote each others posts occasionally? It would be a good way to give posts some initial momentum...

Obviously we would need to do it in an area of the forum that requires a login to keep it private...

Feel free to flame me if I have overlooked some glaringly obvious reason why this is an utterly stupid idea!

 

[Potatoe]

It could get everybody's accounts or domains banned from reddit. They're able to track if a group of people are always voting on the same things. That doesn't mean everyone who does it gets caught (Inb4 "But I do this all the time and we have never had an issue...")

But the main reason is it's just not really necessary. If you understand the subreddit that you're posting in, those few extra votes at the start shouldn't really make a difference. Yeah, they definitely can help you get some exposure, but if your post is going to blow up then it's going to blow up regardless.

When I weigh the fact that it's not really necessary, with the possibly of getting my domain banned, it just doesn't really add up for me but YMMV.

 

[built]

It could get everybody's accounts or domains banned from reddit. They're able to track if a group of people are always voting on the same things. That doesn't mean everyone who does it gets caught (Inb4 "But I do this all the time and we have never had an issue...")

But the main reason is it's just not really necessary. If you understand the subreddit that you're posting in, those few extra votes at the start shouldn't really make a difference. Yeah, they definitely can help you get some exposure, but if your post is going to blow up then it's going to blow up regardless.

When I weigh the fact that it's not really necessary, with the possibly of getting my domain banned, it just doesn't really add up for me but YMMV.

The first few votes make all the difference, literally the difference between the post going big or not. If you're on a big subreddit, if it doesnt get votes asap then it just drifts away into the abyss.

 

[Potatoe]

@built But if your content isn't right for the sub, it shouldn't matter... If it is right for the sub (in my experience) it'll do just fine even without a little help from my friends.

Have you ever had a domain banned? I have, it sucks. Then I stopped getting help with votes and it's been smooth sailing.

Having been on both sides it really hasn't made a huge difference. I agree wholeheartedly that the first few votes are important but I've been able to get those without any help.

Having said that - reddit isn't a huge part of my traffic strategy. It helps to seed some ideas and get some media links once in a while but that's about it. Don't let me discourage anyone who wants to try their hand at a vote cartel, just figured I'd give a warning that getting your account or your whole domain banned is a very real possibility.

Has anyone not been been able to get traction on reddit without group-votes? Maybe I can help.

 

[built]

@built But if your content isn't right for the sub, it shouldn't matter... If it is right for the sub (in my experience) it'll do just fine even without a little help from my friends.

Have you ever had a domain banned? I have, it sucks. Then I stopped getting help with votes and it's been smooth sailing.

Having been on both sides it really hasn't made a huge difference. I agree wholeheartedly that the first few votes are important but I've been able to get those without any help.

Having said that - reddit isn't a huge part of my traffic strategy. It helps to seed some ideas and get some media links once in a while but that's about it. Don't let me discourage anyone who wants to try their hand at a vote cartel, just figured I'd give a warning that getting your account or your whole domain banned is a very real possibility.

Has anyone not been been able to get traction on reddit without group-votes? Maybe I can help.

I have had a domain or 2 banned lol. More spam than vote manipulation.

But I agree with some parts, we have different strategies.

I also would say that a group where everyone up votes is a bad idea. Unless you trust them but even then I don't like the upvote groups.

I like to have 2-3 accounts and a VPN to just give it that little push in the beginning. Really doesn't take much. I just make sure someone can't down vote me to 0

 

[juliantrueflynn]

There is Skype groups already for this kind of stuff. Personally, I left them. It's easier to buy aged Reddit accounts and just control everything internally. I haven't had any issues as long as I kept them separated well.

 

[Ryuzaki]

The best way to handle this is to not be lazy. Don't buy votes, don't manipulate votes, don't ask for votes. Just post your submission and respond to comments in the beginning to it looks engaged. Even post one yourself if it's a submission to get the ball rolling.

Did it not pop off? You may have done absolutely nothing wrong. It might have just been the wrong time of day. It might have been the perfect time of day and the wrong people online. There's way too many variables.

Just follow Reddiquete and work. Don't look for shortcuts. Post 10 more submissions in various sub-reddits and comment around a bit, and try again, even with the same post. Or tack it on the bottom of your list to try again later with a different title, or in a self.post instead of a submission.

Really, this shouldn't make or break a promotion campaign. It should be one of 10, one of 20, one of 50 places you're dropping this link. @Steve Brownlie talks about sending 1000 emails per campaign. You don't have to manipulate one that's going to send you largely worthless traffic (unless you're getting crazy CPM's).

Post it and move on. Come back around next time with your next post. Tunnel vision ain't gonna rank you. Spread your wings and drop your links all over the net. You'll get just as many eyeballs on your site this way, and in the end, exponentially more.

 

[juliantrueflynn]

@Ryuzaki while I agree to a point, I don't think this is very sound marketing advice. It doesn't just come down to 'pray and post' (even after market research).

When a thread/topic is first posted that is one of the most crucial moments for promotion. 2-3 negative replies after posting and some downvotes = you're gone. More likely than not your promotion will now be 'negative' from those users setting the tone.

Some people will be negative because they think they're crafty enough to spot an ad, some will downvote just because they want their post to be higher.

Subreddits are smaller communities that you can control. Depending on the size, the easier it is to control.

 

[Sutra]

There is Skype groups already for this kind of stuff. Personally, I left them. It's easier to buy aged Reddit accounts and just control everything internally. I haven't had any issues as long as I kept them separated well.

Can you buy legit aged Reddit accounts at Fiver? Obviously don't want accounts marked as spam.

 

[juliantrueflynn]

Can you buy legit aged Reddit accounts at Fiver? Obviously don't want accounts marked as spam.

I never bought Reddit accounts from there so I don't know.

 

[Sutra]

@juliantrueflynn Where should I go to buy aged reddit accounts and how much do they typically cost?

 

[juliantrueflynn]

I sent you a PM about it. Not really cool to post those things in public.

 

[Samwise89]

very sound marketing advice

This makes me think of the pop music industry. They create garbage and then use payola to push it into teenage ears. They pay radio stations, buy fake views on youtube, buy up ad space all over the net.

This isn't marketing. It's manipulation.

What they could do is just make good music (content), put it out there, and let the quality do the work.

What you're talking about isn't marketing, it's games to try to make up for not being a good marketer.

 

[Calamari]

This isn't marketing. It's manipulation.

Marketing is manipulation.

I don't recommend OP manipulate reddit upvotes with a group of people but to learn to write compelling titles to manipulate the people of reddit to upvote his content.

 

[Samwise89]

Marketing is manipulation.

Marketing is persuasion, meaning the potential customer has all of the information so they can make a decision based on their feelings and thinking. Manipulation cheats by withholding info or telling a lie, in this case, pretending to have more merit on reddit than you actually do. It's like having fake positive reviews on your website about your product, which is illegal for a reason. Marketing, on the other hand, isn't illegal.

 

[juliantrueflynn]

This makes me think of the pop music industry. They create garbage and then use payola to push it into teenage ears. They pay radio stations, buy fake views on youtube, buy up ad space all over the net.

This isn't marketing. It's manipulation.

What they could do is just make good music (content), put it out there, and let the quality do the work.

What you're talking about isn't marketing, it's games to try to make up for not being a good marketer.

Hope you felt good writing that.

What you're talking about is business development/product creation and its ethics, not marketing. Marketing is promotion. You can throw semantics at me all you want but it's a clear definition. Not to sound pompous but I suggest you break out of this little box you set for yourself.

And yea of course I believe in creating/serving value, but that's not what we're talking about.

Marketing is manipulation.

I don't recommend OP manipulate reddit upvotes with a group of people but to learn to write compelling titles to manipulate the people of reddit to upvote his content.

Writing compelling titles isn't enough a lot of the time and depending on the volume, I agree it's a huge component here though. You will get downvoted on Reddit for reasons I listed earlier (people downvote to get their content up, they see a link, they're not in a great mood, fanboy/competitor, etc.).

I control more here so of course that puts me ahead of the market/competitors. For example, in the scenario of competition, what are you going to do when someone uses their Reddit accounts to just downvote you whenever you try to promote?

 

[Calamari]

For example, in the scenario of competition, what are you going to do when someone uses their Reddit accounts to just downvote you whenever you try to promote?

I'm going to rethink my submission and try again. I don't need to manipulate votes to reach the top of subs.

 

[Potatoe]

what are you going to do when someone uses their Reddit accounts to just downvote you whenever you try to promote?

If you aren't being greasy with your self-promotion on reddit, this is a lot less likely to happen.

You will get downvoted on Reddit

And it's not a big deal. My last submission was downvoted early and went on to hit +1500 on one of the biggest subreddits. A couple early downvotes, contrary to your beliefs, isn't a death sentence.

But I mean... I hit front page and the top of default subs, Ryu does, I'm sure Julian does, so there's no point in arguing. One of these methods is going to keep your site and domain safer from being banned than another method, but at the end of the day we'll all do what suits us best so there's nothing to really debate.

 

[juliantrueflynn]

I'm going to rethink my submission and try again. I don't need to manipulate votes to reach the top of subs.

That was a rhetorical question (should've made it more clear on my end). The point I'm getting across is Reddit comes down to smaller subreddits a lot of the time like I said earlier. The more accounts you have the more control you have on them.

I'm not sure where everyone else is going with their points because this isn't music, or whatever. Anyone can hit the front page of a subreddit and stay there for a bit, the point is doing it consecutively (which is apart of controlling the subreddit) and making it profitable.

And again, no where did I say I don't care about value or crafting a title or whatever. I don't know what to say other than why wouldn't you want a step up on competition? Reddit can be zero-sum just like Google if played right and you can take that channel away from competitors.

 

[Calamari]

And it's not a big deal. My last submission was downvoted early and went on to hit +1500 on one of the biggest subreddits. A couple early downvotes, contrary to your beliefs, isn't a death sentence.

Just to add to this I have gone to the top of large subs with as much as 40% of the votes being downvotes. There's more to the algo than just upvotes.