Where do you live? Where should WE live as Internet Entrepeneurs?

[Marko]

Hello everybody,

I was looking at Thailand and saw how nice it is for a great live of everything we want. It's usually best to live in a place like New York but if you're not on that level yet?

Where do you live guys and where do you recommend other internet entrepeneurs to live?

Thank you

 

[Bastion]

If your business goals don't require in-person networking and access to a local labor pool I think there's something to be said for a comfortable, reasonably priced non-urban home base with a pleasant natural environment when you're in grind mode. Fewer distractions, save more money, everything you need to stay healthy and sane while grinding it out. I do my best work with a daily routine and travelling around long term isn't very conducive to that, at least not for me.

I think this is an often overlooked advantage of this line of work: it's possible that you don't have to be anchored to major metro areas and all the associated high costs, traffic, stress, and pollution in order to make a good living. This is increasingly not an option for anyone that wants to collect a better than median paycheck.

 

[Joe]

Somewhere where the internet isn't shitty is No.1. Feeling the urge to smash your laptop because of sub dial-up level internet (still exists even in those countries we all talk about being "up and coming world leaders" trust me), doesn't do much for your enterprise. A nice Ethernet-speed fiber really does wonders for your sanity and your productivity.

Also Thailand isn't that good I think, simply because it's too nice. It's where old saggy men go to retire and young kids go to party cheap. The last place you want to grind is somewhere that encourages you to chill out and enjoy yourself. The big winners are still all coming out of places like the rich US states. Sure you think you'll do good because of low costs of living, but there's a reason for those low costs, and you have to be a monolith of energy and wisdom who doesn't need the contagious energy and insight of being surrounded by San Fran go-getters to succeed. Also I went to a talk a little while back where a kid asked "what if I want California financing, but to use it to start a company here where it's cheaper?", and he was told "you won't get as much as an email back, 99% you'll have to live there". All the big playboys I've ever met were the got 1st world rich and retired early types, not the lifestyle business laptop on the beach I'm working on my blog about blogs in Thailand types.

 

[CCarter]

I don't know any killers hanging out on the beach all day sipping mojitos. What type of business are you looking to create I guess?

Seems like all the people trying to go to 3rd world countries to "start a business" aren't really interested in running real businesses. They are more interested in partying all day and blogging to bring in a couple of dollars - basically "getting by" pretending to be an entrepreneur. Do they really want to run a business or play pretend?

If I have to meet an investor, potential new client/partner or Fortune 100 or 50 corporation... I have to show up in person - suit and tie, not drop in a Skype call with a beach in the background.

Sounds like people are looking to make hundreds of thousands, not millions or billions with their operation. That's fine, but don't play pretend and try to call yourself CEO from a beach with your $12 a month "employees" that are just glorified VAs.

Maybe you guys aren't trying to be killers - whatever, that's just less competition for me and my gang.

 

[KevinOH]

I live in Kenya (3rd world country, of course). Didn't move here, I was born here. While most IMers are moving to Thailand and Vietnam, I have no intention of leaving my country or even moving to 1st world countries.

My only goal is to travel around...you know, visit and see shit. But not really moving.

 

[Philip J. Fry]

I don't know any killers hanging out on the beach all day sipping mojitos. What type of business are you looking to create I guess?

Seems like all the people trying to go to 3rd world countries to "start a business" aren't really interested in running real businesses. They are more interested in partying all day and blogging to bring in a couple of dollars - basically "getting by" pretending to be an entrepreneur. Do they really want to run a business or play pretend?

If I have to meet an investor, potential new client/partner or Fortune 100 or 50 corporation... I have to show up in person - suit and tie, not drop in a Skype call with a beach in the background.

Sounds like people are looking to make hundreds of thousands, not millions or billions with their operation. That's fine, but don't play pretend and try to call yourself CEO from a beach with your $12 a month "employees" that are just glorified VAs.

Maybe you guys aren't trying to be killers - whatever, that's just less competition for me and my gang.

How much money do you have?

 

[stackcash]

I've lived in NYC / Long Island my entire life. Until the past 5 years or so, it's been a struggle.

I believe Long Island is consistently rated the most expensive place to live in the US. With that said... you can totally live here on any budget. If you make under $50k as a household, you should expect to rent with housemates or in a one-bedroom apartment in a less desirable area of Long Island.

If you want to live in Manhattan or Brooklyn on $50k or less, you should expect to have several housemates or be ready to shell out $3k a month to rent on your own.

To own on Long Island, you should expect a very modest single-family home to start at $300k-$350k. In Manhatten/Brooklyn, that prices shoots up to around $900k.

But, like others have already said, you don't need to be near a major metro area to succeed. All you need is a laptop, a good internet connection, and somewhere you can work comfortably. Don't feel pressured to move anywhere just because you think there will be more opportunity. The internet has all the opportunity you'll ever need.

 

[Philip J. Fry]

Hey, OP. I've lived in Northern NJ (close to NY) before. I've also lived in Thailand. I now live in Poland. I've actually been to around 40 countries so far.

Like what @stackcash says, to succeed online, all you need is an internet connection. So, island countries like Indonesia or Malaysia (or central america...) are not that good since fast Internet is hard to come by. Like, you can get fast Internet at home but, if you go to a Cafe, LOL, good luck.

So, that leaves countries with fast Internet, which is most first world countries and some lesser develop countries that prioritize tech development (for example, Vietnam subsidizes Internet access and its like 50 MBPS down).

Of those, you'd want one with a low cost of living relative to the quality of life.

So, you can live for like $500/month in Chiang Mai and go to work every day but, then, you'll have to deal with the smog in the spring, the motor bikes, and what else.

You can also live for $5k/month in NYC and deal with the prices, traffic, congested subway, etc.

Either route you choose, it can still work. It just depends on your preferences.

Also, the lower your COL is, the more you can save. The saved money can be used as capital to invest in a new business, or you can use it to retire sooner. Your choice.

Here's a list of some places I've lived in and my impression of them:

• Berlin - cheap COL, tons of hipsters, so-so life but good nightlife. Also, very bureaucratic.
• Krakow - cheap COL, great nightlife, amazing women, very, very catholic, nice culture.
• Lwow - piece of shit with terrible infrastructure. Pretty women.
• Chaing Mai - over-rated shit hole filled with broke wannapreneurs.
• Ho Chi Minh City - good food. Lots of broke wannapreneurs too. Terrible quality of life because of high light pollution, sound pollution, air pollution, and regular pollution. very over crowded
• Boulder/Denver - the place if you want to start a venture backed company. Great mountains. Great skiing. High COL.
• NYC - eh, I'm over it. The price is not worth what you get and you can still meet New Yorkers online and talk to them over Skype.
• Ubud, Bali - Skip this place. Its nice and pretty and the food is good but its over-ran with hippie gurus who are trying to sell their The Power of Magical Crystals course.... yeah...
• London - same as NYC. Not worth the cost IMO.
• Dublin - ... ok. Friendly people.
• Stockholm - Great place, not that expensive but there's a lot of taxes in Sweden. I'd prefer Helsinki since its similar but lower price.
• Oslo, Norway - hahaha skip this place. Its nice but everything is over priced.
• Istanbul - skip.
• Greek Islands - skip.
• Morocco - skip.

If I could recommend any place, it'll probably be Warsaw, Poland, Helsinki, Finland, or Tallinn, Estonia.

Great value for the quality of life, developed infrastructure, nice people, nice culture, OK food, and good Internet.

 

[CCarter]

How much money do you have?

I'm not sure where you are from but asking "How much money do you have?" is a social faux pas. Maybe you don't understand social norms - but that's not a question you should ever ask ANYONE.

Not only is it a major breach of etiquette, but, especially when it comes to online, you then would either #1 believe whatever amount the person says - and you have to question anyone willing to divulge that information online (Hi IRS) and take anything they say afterwards with a grain of salt.

Or #2 you would then ask for proof - you can continue the round-about loop of asking for more and more proof cause "anything can be photoshopped" or altered to fit one's distorted reality. You'll probably move to asking identifying questions - All of which doesn't matter unless you can see someone's tax returns.

But if you REALLY must know...














Not enough.

 

[eliquid]

But, like others have already said, you don't need to be near a major metro area to succeed. All you need is a laptop, a good internet connection, and somewhere you can work comfortably. Don't feel pressured to move anywhere just because you think there will be more opportunity. The internet has all the opportunity you'll ever need.

Not to do any disjustice to what you said, but I'm gonna break it down even further and say you don't even need some of this...

I'm a very transparent person.

1. I agree you don't need to be in a major rural area. I made my first million in a rural hick town. Cows were literally to the front, back, left and right of me. I had to smell shit every day.

2. So rural, when it rained the power would go out and it wouldn't be fixed for a day or 2 easily.

3. Good internet connection? Nope. I made it with a 56k dialup No joke.

4. Comfortable? Nope. Me and my wife struggled with our 3 kids. Cars repossessed, late on mortgage, wick and unemployment.. almost divorced twice in 4 years. You get the picture of what my mental stress must have been like. Having to rely on my mom for supper some weeks for us.

If you mean physically... I sat in a hard wooden kitchen seat for 18+ hours and my laptop sat on a door I used for a desk. When I didn't work like that, I laid in bed and worked on my stomach late at night which caused neck and back problems. Oh, our AC and Heat would constantly not work. I finally saved enough to buy a window unit one summer which felt like magic.

5. Laptop? Eh maybe. I had a laptop. The trackpad didn't work and a large part of the screen was messed up from where I dropped it. The battery was dead so it always had to be plugged in. It was already old when I got it and everything was SLOW as hell ( not just the internet ). I still have that laptop somewhere in my basement. It was a Toshiba Satellite and I retired it as soon as I could...

If I can make it with that, anyone can make it these days.

When it came down to it, it wasn't my city or environment. It was me and who I am.

Don't think moving somewhere will help you, because in most cases you are trying to fix a major issue with a bandaid

 

[turbin3]

I live interdimensionally within TMUX sessions on my servers.

In all seriousness though, location is one of the least important variables for many if not most things in the digital world. It may be a more significant factor for businesses or ventures that have certain resource and / or geo-oriented constraints. Sometimes you just have to do stuff in person, visit suppliers and contractors, to keep certain things running smoothly and the minions in check. That being said, for most, not a major factor.

I think the important thing for people to put in perspective is, as convenience and resources grow, it becomes easier to become "softer" and more complacent. In essence, dulling that razor's edge of your business acumen. Enduring hardship is an extremely useful tool in learning the value of a thing and how to get the most out of it. As entrepreneurs, where we should live is on the edge.

 

[stackcash]

Not to do any disjustice to what you said, but I'm gonna break it down even further and say you don't even need some of this...

I'm a very transparent person.

1. I agree you don't need to be in a major rural area. I made my first million in a rural hick town. Cows were literally to the front, back, left and right of me. I had to smell shit every day.

2. So rural, when it rained the power would go out and it wouldn't be fixed for a day or 2 easily.

3. Good internet connection? Nope. I made it with a 56k dialup No joke.

4. Comfortable? Nope. Me and my wife struggled with our 3 kids. Cars repossessed, late on mortgage, wick and unemployment.. almost divorced twice in 4 years. You get the picture of what my mental stress must have been like. Having to rely on my mom for supper some weeks for us.

If you mean physically... I sat in a hard wooden kitchen seat for 18+ hours and my laptop sat on a door I used for a desk. When I didn't work like that, I laid in bed and worked on my stomach late at night which caused neck and back problems. Oh, our AC and Heat would constantly not work. I finally saved enough to buy a window unit one summer which felt like magic.

5. Laptop? Eh maybe. I had a laptop. The trackpad didn't work and a large part of the screen was messed up from where I dropped it. The battery was dead so it always had to be plugged in. It was already old when I got it and everything was SLOW as hell ( not just the internet ). I still have that laptop somewhere in my basement. It was a Toshiba Satellite and I retired it as soon as I could...

If I can make it with that, anyone can make it these days.

When it came down to it, it wasn't my city or environment. It was me and who I am.

Don't think moving somewhere will help you, because in most cases you are trying to fix a major issue with a bandaid

Oh, I hear ya @eliquid. I've got my own "hard knocks" stories too:

• Lived out of my Ford Explorer, with the mattress in the back. My girl at the time had a few too many drinks, wet the "bed", and we were woken up by the local garbage men laughing at us.
• Lived out of a music studio when I still played in a band. The dingy couch and taking showers in a warehouse sink were no fun...
• Went two months couch hoping, and used my tethered phone as my only internet connection
• Had to choose between paying rent and buying groceries many times

I know this is kinda outside the scope of this thread.... but, it's cool to look back at what motivated us to get to where we're at now!

 

[animalstyle]

I think it all comes down to putting yourself in the way of abundance. A business needs customers. A student needs teachers. If either of those are location dependent, then you'll need to go there.

The big mistake I made, and I see others make is going somewhere because you 'should' rather than because you needed to be there to accomplish your desires.

I went to college for a year and completely wasted my time there. I was surrounded by opportunity, but I didn't want it. What I wanted was to learn a specific skill. Once I found I had a burning desire for that, I moved across the country and placed myself in the midst of the best teachers in the world for that skill - a mecca of sorts.

Lo and behold I grew to find success there and have a 7 year career that still to this day provides me with satisfaction, my closest friends, my social circle, and my wife.

Long story short if you're grinding on the internet and location doesn't matter for your learning or business, yet you're posting here, I think you've already found a great 'place to be'. A place where super successful and humble people gather to share ideas, as a student of online marketing, well that's the location you'd need - I know it is for me.

-----

My hard knocks stories don't compare, but it was still fun to look back after reading @stackcash and @eliquid 's posts:

• I moved across the country to the desert - a good choice because I consider myself to be 'solar powered'. The pacific northwest didn't suit me, constantly sick, depressed etc.
• I moved into a trailer that leaked badly. Literally water pouring down into the center of the bed and living spaces. I had everything I owned in the shower because it was the only place that stayed dry.
• I 'upgraded' to a non leaking trailer with a microwave, mini fridge and bunk beds - loved it.

Looking back I have such gratitude to be living the way I am now.

The battle still rages on, in the one location that always matters the most - the mind.

 

[Island]

Currently I'm living mostly at my parents place in a big city, and I also have a dirt cheap shithole room in downtown Toronto.

I'm pretty much at my parents place most of the week, with a nice home office where I grind from morning till night. Very productive. I have the downtown place for when I need to let loose, if I have a date, etc.

This is a good setup because I'm saving money and being insanely productive.

In the winter I plan to be in Mexico and Colombia.

If right now I'm going at 100% when it comes to work... over the winter I want to be going 80% at it while I'm in Colombia. Right now I don't care about having a life and I'm just at home all day grinding.

The thing I learned from my last couple of winters is that you have to travel to one city and just stay there and grind.

You can't be very productive traveling to different cities. Last trip I got sucked into partying and I was drinking 3-5 nights a week, hooking up with girls left and right. This time around I plan to be smarter and mostly stay in one city with a schedule.

It was a helluva lot of fun but not good for productivity. I realize the best way to deal with that side of me is to delegate that to short trips where I go on a bender and then go back into work mode.

Yeah, there's no way I could live in a rural environment (unless its for a few days to think). Maybe when I'm older. Right now I prefer cities.

In terms of networking, Toronto is solid. I've met incredible business connections here that I owe a lot to. I agree that you have to spend time in alpha cities to meet high achievers.

At the same time, I think a lot of these big third world cities also have a ton of opportunity available.

Ideally I'd like to also live in London, Stockholm, New York, Rio, Sydney, and Tokyo.

Hell... I want to live everywhere. The whole reason I'm in this line of work is to have freedom and travel the world.

 

[Repz]

I currently have my residence in Dubai as it was the most attractive no-tax place I could find. Took a while to set up and won't work as nicely if you're American, but now I don't have to pay any tax at all which is pretty damn nice - I was playing close to 50% before. Dubai itself is a fairly average city but it's highly livable with good internet, I have a nice apartment/home office there so whenever I need to get some work done, it's a great spot for grinding. And once I get too bored of that, I fly elsewhere and work "remotely" like a digital nomad.

It's a good setup for now but at some point I'll probably move somewhere more permanent.