Critique My Diet!

[stackcash]

I know us computer nerds aren't the healthiest in the world, so I figured I'd start a diet / calorie counting /exercise thread so we could all compare and see where our strengths and weaknesses lie.

Hopefully @builttodominate can chime in here, because this is obviously his niche.

Right now, I'm 29 years old. I'm 6'2 and weigh 212.5lbs. My target heart rate is 143. I've been hitting the gym hard for almost a month, and I'm down weight from 221lbs. My goal weight is 190-195.

I'm doing cardio for 30-45 minutes 6 days a week and I lift 3 days a week. It's been a year or so since I left crossfit, so I'm starting slowly with lifting. I'm mostly using machines and cables to condition my muscles to get back into the swing of things. I plan on moving over to free weights again around month 3.

Here is a screenshot of what my daily diet looks like. I try to stick around 2000 calories. My weight loss has slowed over the past few days, so I'm wondering if it's due to something with my diet. Any advice would be appreciated!

The protein/carbs/fats columns will still have to be multiplied by the serving amount to get to their respective totals.

Other than this, I'm only drinking water and hot tea.

What do you guys think?

 

[built]

Its only been a month so you shouldnt expect anything dramatic in terms of body composition. Also since this is the first month it could be possible that you are gaining muscle at the same time. muscle memory etc.

Give yourself a bit more time, then you will have a better bases to experiment from.

6 days a week of cardio might be a bit too much considering you're low carb + calorie.

Also what type of cardio are you doing?

One thing you should remember is in the beginning you shouldnt go all out because when you get further down the line and hit a plateau you will have nothing left to give.

Thats my opinion with cardio, id start with 3 times a week 20-30min. further down the line then id increase to 4 then 5 etc.

 

[stackcash]

Thanks man.

For cardio, I'm just alternating machines at the gym - treadmill, elliptical, stationary bike, recumbent, etc. I try not to do the same one twice in a row.

You think decreasing my cardio is going to increase my weight loss? Or, do you just mean I should stop being so eager and slow down to let the weight come off in a more "healthy way"?

 

[built]

Thanks man.

For cardio, I'm just alternating machines at the gym - treadmill, elliptical, stationary bike, recumbent, etc. I try not to do the same one twice in a row.

You think decreasing my cardio is going to increase my weight loss? Or, do you just mean I should stop being so eager and slow down to let the weight come off in a more "healthy way"?

thats the only way its going to stay off.

but yeah just decrease it for now before you overtrain, make sure you stick to the diet you posted the weight will come off. , also dont you track coffee etc?

 

[c4yrslf12]

I dunno @stackcash looks to me like you have an extra calorie to eat each day.

In all seriousness, just keep doing what you're doing. Avoid the obvious downfalls of bad eating or skipping gym days and you're routine alone will get easier. When it does, just add a little weight/resistance, a little speed, or throw in a day each week where you do something completely out of the ordinary routine (yoga, swim, hike, or general sports).

 

[stackcash]

LOL. I use that one calorie for special occasions. If I save it up all year - I get 365 calories. That's how it works - right?

But, in all seriousness, those are some good tips. I should just focus on getting the bulk weight off at first and then worry about all the minutiae when I need to get those last marginal gains.

I dunno @stackcash looks to me like you have an extra calorie to eat each day.

In all seriousness, just keep doing what you're doing. Avoid the obvious downfalls of bad eating or skipping gym days and you're routine alone will get easier. When it does, just add a little weight/resistance, a little speed, or throw in a day each week where you do something completely out of the ordinary routine (yoga, swim, hike, or general sports).

 

[Murk]

Your boarder line ketosis, why not go all the way?

 

[Alex VanDavid]

Good work getting a plan in place. Have you determined your body composition? What size frame do you have? (can be determined by wrist test)
Knowing your potential low end gives you a better target zone weight wise. Although condition and fitness level are the most meaningful.
I agree with @Murk too- if you are getting close to ketosis why not drop in? Get you body fat adapted and get the energy nature intended!
There is an amazing amount of paradigm shifts taking place in the nutritional arena- old is new again. Research is pointing to consuming more good fats and leaving refined sugars and starches behind for good.
As a desk dweller for 18 hours a day - taking walks, runs, whatever as often as possible actually improves productivity- as well as keeping that "stay puff" feeling at bay
Living on eggs, nuts, fish, berries, bacon, elk, salads and, umm, champagne mostly. Other than that just Sex N' Drugs N' Rock N' Roll...

 

[turbin3]

Sorry in advance. It's a wall of text, but there's some important stuff here I think you'll want to hear.

Your calories and macros look decent. Basically 2000cal, 200g P / 90g C / 96g F. So you're getting a healthy amount of protein, which is good. You're also getting plenty of fat, which is good, so you won't be going braindead. ;-)

The thing is, the scale is so deceptive. Lost weight doesn't necessarily mean anything by itself. Was it all fat, or was some of it also muscle? Some people crash diet with protein so low, they don't realize they're probably burning more muscle than fat, which is lame.

Also, there's a third factor people know far less about, that is incredibly deceptive, and IMO, skews a lot of people's ideas of how things may or may not be working on a diet. IE - water weight A lot of the studies I've seen have found that it's not uncommon for people to have anywhere from 5-15+lbs of excess water weight, that under certain conditions, they can drop very rapidly. I've done it myself, going hardcore keto with under 30g carbs/day, and lost 20lbs in 20 days a couple separate times before. This can lead to some really skewed ideas of how fast you can lose weight. For example, it seems that it's not uncommon for a lot of people on a ketogenic diet, to drop a lot of water weight, possibly due to the low amount of carbs they're eating, combined with the body adapting to ketones. Generally speaking, at least for the beginning stages of a keto diet, anything 100g or less of carbs per day is entering the beginning stages of ketosis for most people.

In some cases, where a person may be carrying a lot of water weight, sometimes people can see some crazy stuff where they're dropping several pounds per day, maybe over the course of a week or several weeks, to the point where dropping 20-30lbs in that first month just happens and things seem amazing.... That is, until a lot of that excess water weight is gone, and then all of a sudden it seems like things have slowed to a crawl. In reality, a healthy level of FAT loss is ~1-1.5lbs per week. Maybe 2lbs at most. Much beyond that, and it means you're cutting calories so significantly that you might see something like metabolism slowing, increased loss of lean mass, etc. Generally speaking, based on what a lot of professionals have found, it seems that it's generally not a good idea to go beyond about a 1,000 calorie per day deficit, whether from just eating at a caloric deficit, exercise, or a combination of both. Going beyond seems to more quickly result in metabolism slowing down.

So take my example, 20lbs lost in 20 days. This was with me religiously tracking food, calories and macros. The laws of thermodynamics would state that, since 3500cal = 1lb, 20lbs lost x3500 = 70,000 calories burned. Based on my specs (similar to yours), at the 2,000cal/day I was eating, plus exercise, I was at most at a 1,000cal deficit per day = 20,000calories (5.7lbs). Yet somehow I lost 20 freakin pounds?! In reality, I lost ~5-6lbs of actual fat, and about 14-15lbs of excess water weight. It's pretty much the only way those numbers can ever make sense, especially considering the laws of thermodynamics. It's science. ;-) In my case, I had the same effect each time. Those first 20lbs or so just fell right off like nothing, then by the second month, things slowed to a crawl.

I say all that to say this. Based on your numbers, I'm betting you've experienced something similar; dropping a lot of water weight. Things are going to slow by the second month, to the point where you'll probably only see ~1-1.5lbs of weight loss PER WEEK. Don't freak out with that and stop what you're doing, because IT'S WORKING! Stick with it! Weight loss at that rate is excellent if you want to keep it off long term. I'd bet the whole water weight thing is probably why so many people can't stick with a diet longer than that first month or so. Just stick with it. At your numbers, it won't be long and you'll be at your target weight. At this rate, 3 months and you're there.

The flip side of dropping water weight fast is, it seems like people can pack on excess water weight just as fast, when they quit their diets the wrong way....

 

[built]

^ he's losing shit loads of water weight with all that cardio too. I personally have never done keto/low carb so I'm not the best person to give advice on the diet

When I diet I simply track calories, I eat good whole food, my macros are high protein moderate carbs and low fat

I give myself time and I gradually increase intensity or cal deficit

 

[stackcash]

Your boarder line ketosis, why not go all the way?

To be honest, I haven't looked into the particulars of a ketogenic diet. I've heard it mentioned before - but just haven't done the research yet.

Good work getting a plan in place. Have you determined your body composition? What size frame do you have? (can be determined by wrist test)
Knowing your potential low end gives you a better target zone weight wise. Although condition and fitness level are the most meaningful.
I agree with @Murk too- if you are getting close to ketosis why not drop in? Get you body fat adapted and get the energy nature intended!
There is an amazing amount of paradigm shifts taking place in the nutritional arena- old is new again. Research is pointing to consuming more good fats and leaving refined sugars and starches behind for good.
As a desk dweller for 18 hours a day - taking walks, runs, whatever as often as possible actually improves productivity- as well as keeping that "stay puff" feeling at bay
Living on eggs, nuts, fish, berries, bacon, elk, salads and, umm, champagne mostly. Other than that just Sex N' Drugs N' Rock N' Roll...

Sounds like I need to check out the ketogenic diet. My biggest thing with dieting is that the food prep needs to be ridiculously easy. If I'm dreading cooking - I probably won't stick with it. Right now, what I'm doing seems easy to me.

Wrist test = 7.5" - So, I'm right on the cusp of Medium/Large. What does this tell me?

Sorry in advance. It's a wall of text, but there's some important stuff here I think you'll want to hear.

Your calories and macros look decent. Basically 2000cal, 200g P / 90g C / 96g F. So you're getting a healthy amount of protein, which is good. You're also getting plenty of fat, which is good, so you won't be going braindead. ;-)

The thing is, the scale is so deceptive. Lost weight doesn't necessarily mean anything by itself. Was it all fat, or was some of it also muscle? Some people crash diet with protein so low, they don't realize they're probably burning more muscle than fat, which is lame.

Also, there's a third factor people know far less about, that is incredibly deceptive, and IMO, skews a lot of people's ideas of how things may or may not be working on a diet. IE - water weight A lot of the studies I've seen have found that it's not uncommon for people to have anywhere from 5-15+lbs of excess water weight, that under certain conditions, they can drop very rapidly. I've done it myself, going hardcore keto with under 30g carbs/day, and lost 20lbs in 20 days a couple separate times before. This can lead to some really skewed ideas of how fast you can lose weight. For example, it seems that it's not uncommon for a lot of people on a ketogenic diet, to drop a lot of water weight, possibly due to the low amount of carbs they're eating, combined with the body adapting to ketones. Generally speaking, at least for the beginning stages of a keto diet, anything 100g or less of carbs per day is entering the beginning stages of ketosis for most people.

In some cases, where a person may be carrying a lot of water weight, sometimes people can see some crazy stuff where they're dropping several pounds per day, maybe over the course of a week or several weeks, to the point where dropping 20-30lbs in that first month just happens and things seem amazing.... That is, until a lot of that excess water weight is gone, and then all of a sudden it seems like things have slowed to a crawl. In reality, a healthy level of FAT loss is ~1-1.5lbs per week. Maybe 2lbs at most. Much beyond that, and it means you're cutting calories so significantly that you might see something like metabolism slowing, increased loss of lean mass, etc. Generally speaking, based on what a lot of professionals have found, it seems that it's generally not a good idea to go beyond about a 1,000 calorie per day deficit, whether from just eating at a caloric deficit, exercise, or a combination of both. Going beyond seems to more quickly result in metabolism slowing down.

So take my example, 20lbs lost in 20 days. This was with me religiously tracking food, calories and macros. The laws of thermodynamics would state that, since 3500cal = 1lb, 20lbs lost x3500 = 70,000 calories burned. Based on my specs (similar to yours), at the 2,000cal/day I was eating, plus exercise, I was at most at a 1,000cal deficit per day = 20,000calories (5.7lbs). Yet somehow I lost 20 freakin pounds?! In reality, I lost ~5-6lbs of actual fat, and about 14-15lbs of excess water weight. It's pretty much the only way those numbers can ever make sense, especially considering the laws of thermodynamics. It's science. ;-) In my case, I had the same effect each time. Those first 20lbs or so just fell right off like nothing, then by the second month, things slowed to a crawl.

I say all that to say this. Based on your numbers, I'm betting you've experienced something similar; dropping a lot of water weight. Things are going to slow by the second month, to the point where you'll probably only see ~1-1.5lbs of weight loss PER WEEK. Don't freak out with that and stop what you're doing, because IT'S WORKING! Stick with it! Weight loss at that rate is excellent if you want to keep it off long term. I'd bet the whole water weight thing is probably why so many people can't stick with a diet longer than that first month or so. Just stick with it. At your numbers, it won't be long and you'll be at your target weight. At this rate, 3 months and you're there.

The flip side of dropping water weight fast is, it seems like people can pack on excess water weight just as fast, when they quit their diets the wrong way....

What you're saying here echos a lot with what I've experienced in the past with the Tim Ferriss "Slow Carb" Diet - as well as Paleo challenges that I've done. I end up dropping 20-30lbs in the first two weeks with no visible change really....and then everything slows to a crawl.

On this go around with low carb/low calorie, I had an initial drop of 15lbs over the first 2.5 weeks and then hit that weight loss slowdown. Right now, I'm losing about 0.2lbs/day. It's slow moving, but I'm staying with it.

What worries me the most is the possibility of gaining it all back after a fun night out or a date with the girlfriend. I've been lucky that there haven't been too many social events over the past few weeks to tempt me. But, I have the St. Patty's Day Parade coming up (always a shit show) and a work dinner with the girl that includes risotto, potatos, and a wine pairing.

 

[AntonUber]

What worries me the most is the possibility of gaining it all back after a fun night out or a date with the girlfriend.

It doesn't work like that You just don't magically balloon up after one night. However what you might gain is water weight, especially if you are exercising a lot and your excess water weight is low normally. For example I eat quite strictly and hover around 1900kcal per day but if I got over (a lot) one day I'll probably see few kg increase in a day or two but it will disappear as quickly as it came if I keep with the diet. Also remember that it's the diet that determines your weight and exercise is for muscles.

*edit* About that slow weight drop, that's totally normal. I've got around 5kg to lose to get around ~14% body fat and it's really slow now. What works for me is intermittent fasting combined with keto.

 

[stackcash]

It doesn't work like that You just don't magically balloon up after one night. However what you might gain is water weight, especially if you are exercising a lot and your excess water weight is low normally. For example I eat quite strictly and hover around 1900kcal per day but if I got over (a lot) one day I'll probably see few kg increase in a day or two but it will disappear as quickly as it came if I keep with the diet. Also remember that it's the diet that determines your weight and exercise is for muscles.

*edit* About that slow weight drop, that's totally normal. I've got around 5kg to lose to get around ~14% body fat and it's really slow now. What works for me is intermittent fasting combined with keto.

Ah, well that's a bit of relief. I definitely need a party night once or twice a month. Glad to know it won't ruin everything.

Can any of you dudes recommend a good website on the keto diet?

 

[Alex VanDavid]

Anton @ Uberaff and turbin3 are right- the quick losses and gains come from water weight.
If you are good at intaking your 2 liters + per day it won't matter in the long run. What happens when you eliminate/reduce carb intake and burn fat as energy the waste is water. When you carb up again the body stores glycogen (sugar) and you gain until you burn it off and the waste product are much more volatile. Keeping active however you can is important.

www.dietdoctor.com is a killer site, Jonas is excellent. He is a Swede and Sweden is the first country to toss out the "Low Fat" bullshit in favor of real science that isn't influenced by big biz. Their tax dollars pay for health care and they are efficient in that way, unlike the corporate welfare with the US model. Anyway, I could go on, but won't...

Also look for Timothy Noakes material- this guy is a prominent scientist who bucks the trends when science leads him there- very trustworthy guy.

Good reads- "Good Calories Bad Calories" - Gary Taubes, "The Big Fat Surprise" Nina Teicholz
Once you read and research some of that you will understand how screwed up our culture is about food, and the mofo's who are ruining our health.

Search "LCHF" "Low Carb High Fat" "NSNG" "No Sugar No Grains" for more info, the backstory to the way we are "conditioned" to eat will piss you right the fuck off!

I'm sorta psycho with this myself, but I love working. So burning fat I can stay focused for an incredible amount of time. I never believed in the Atkins approach as an endurance athlete- it was all about carbs as energy. Once I shed the mental programming it all came into focus and athletically things are as good as I could possibly expect (for a 49 year old dinosaur).

The Wrist Test just gives you a look at frame size and reasonable expectations with regards to a "normal" weight.

 

[built]

^ I'm 50lbs over lol damn

 

[stackcash]

Great info. Thanks for that.

Based on that chart, it looks like I'm undershooting my goal weight. I should be closer to 175-180. I feel like I'll look emaciated like that.

Anton @ Uberaff and turbin3 are right- the quick losses and gains come from water weight.
If you are good at intaking your 2 liters + per day it won't matter in the long run. What happens when you eliminate/reduce carb intake and burn fat as energy the waste is water. When you carb up again the body stores glycogen (sugar) and you gain until you burn it off and the waste product are much more volatile. Keeping active however you can is important.

www.dietdoctor.com is a killer site, Jonas is excellent. He is a Swede and Sweden is the first country to toss out the "Low Fat" bullshit in favor of real science that isn't influenced by big biz. Their tax dollars pay for health care and they are efficient in that way, unlike the corporate welfare with the US model. Anyway, I could go on, but won't...

Also look for Timothy Noakes material- this guy is a prominent scientist who bucks the trends when science leads him there- very trustworthy guy.

Good reads- "Good Calories Bad Calories" - Gary Taubes, "The Big Fat Surprise" Nina Teicholz
Once you read and research some of that you will understand how screwed up our culture is about food, and the mofo's who are ruining our health.

Search "LCHF" "Low Carb High Fat" "NSNG" "No Sugar No Grains" for more info, the backstory to the way we are "conditioned" to eat will piss you right the fuck off!

I'm sorta psycho with this myself, but I love working. So burning fat I can stay focused for an incredible amount of time. I never believed in the Atkins approach as an endurance athlete- it was all about carbs as energy. Once I shed the mental programming it all came into focus and athletically things are as good as I could possibly expect (for a 49 year old dinosaur).

The Wrist Test just gives you a look at frame size and reasonable expectations with regards to a "normal" weight.

 

[Murk]

Honestly, ur practically in ketosis. Drop your carbs below 50g, up ur fiber to or over 50g, and bring up the fat to like 100g or more.

Ketosis is a great way to cut fat, it's fast and super effective. Add coconut butter or oil to ur diet as well as olive oil. And peanuts are awesome!

But, don't sleep on the fiber, my first keto run was a disaster, not going into details.

Once ur in ketosis, get Himalayan salt and have about a tablespoon or so in your diet daily, u will get the sodium and other minerals u need.

Ketosis is the best all those salty , oily foods that where considered bad for you become super healthy foods!

You will start to lose fat and gain muscle.

I do a hybrid. Thing now a days, I eat a toon of food on work out days, including small amount of carbs and I fast on off days.

 

[Murk]

I yeah, alt day fasting is another option.
Works great and the health benefits are insane. It probably the best thing you can do for over all health.

I just try to kept it old school, like 1000bc old school.

If you hunt ( pump iron) you eat the prey (high fat , high protein)

If you don't hunt, you don't eat!

So a day at the gym is a day to meal, no gym that day no food that day, or very little.

It's also a motivator at the gym, I amp my self up, "you want to eat mudda'fuka"

But I'm retarded with that stuff

 

[AntonUber]

I yeah, alt day fasting is another option.
Works great and the health benefits are insane. It probably the best thing you can do for over all health.

I agree though I would recommend starting with intermittent fasting with something like 16h fasting and 8h eating period until trying to go full 24h fasting with 1 meal. Personally I know 24h fasting wouldn't work for me but 16/8 works great. I feel absolutely awesome in the mornings (I fast from 7pm to 11am). According research you get the same health benefits from 16h than from 24h, anything over 12h works. For most folks it's about how you like to eat. I couldn't do only one big meal so I've scheduled my eating in 3 separate meals at 11am, 3-4pm and 7pm.

 

[Alex VanDavid]

Yes the fasting is huge. Not everyone has the discipline but it is a major bonus in burning fat.

The 16/8 sliding toward 20/4 is effective. The control factor alone psychs me up.

Sometimes pushing major projects and trying to beat out deadlines I will eat 6-8 eggs in the morning and drink San Pellegrino (maybe a coffee or two) for the next 24 hours and work straight through... Once the fat is lit the energy is close to limitless.

The fat seems to really fuel the brain and focus is excellent.

 

[Murk]

Yes the fasting is huge. Not everyone has the discipline but it is a major bonus in burning fat.

The 16/8 sliding toward 20/4 is effective. The control factor alone psychs me up.

Sometimes pushing major projects and trying to beat out deadlines I will eat 6-8 eggs in the morning and drink San Pellegrino (maybe a coffee or two) for the next 24 hours and work straight through... Once the fat is lit the energy is close to limitless.

The fat seems to really fuel the brain and focus is excellent.

Yeah, when you in ketosis , u never really get sleepy or tired. When I take my breaks off of ketosis I start getting that sleepy at 3 to 5 pm thing.

 

[Alex VanDavid]

Yeah, when you in ketosis , u never really get sleepy or tired. When I take my breaks off of ketosis I start getting that sleepy at 3 to 5 pm thing.

That's what the afternoon coffee is for usually. Burning ketones I forget about it sometimes- which is probably good!
Went off LCHF (low carb high fat), increased exercise, reduced calories and gained weight- so we are pretty much hard wired to eat protein & fat, at least I'm convinced. Us Warriors need it!

 

[AntonUber]

That's what the afternoon coffee is for usually. Burning ketones I forget about it sometimes- which is probably good!
Went off LCHF (low carb high fat), increased exercise, reduced calories and gained weight- so we are pretty much hard wired to eat protein & fat, at least I'm convinced. Us Warriors need it!

When you think about it, it's pretty common sense. Just think what high carb options you had available at the times when our body evolved to it's current state? Berries, fruits etc. which all were highly seasonal food, at least most parts of the world. That's pretty much it. Majority of current high carb foods are man-made so at least to me it's just common sense that you run in optimal state when you are on high fat, high protein diet. But I know that the transition from high carb diet can be rough because most of the foods people are used to eating in all modern cultures are heavily wheat based so it's not only that you are abandoning some items you eat, it's also abandoning traditions etc. and that can be easy or hard depending on what culture you were born in.

 

[Alex VanDavid]

But I know that the transition from high carb diet can be rough because most of the foods people are used to eating in all modern cultures are heavily wheat based so it's not only that you are abandoning some items you eat, it's also abandoning traditions etc. and that can be easy or hard depending on what culture you were born in.

The transition is a bitch. Most of the literature mentions 3 weeks to transition, during that it is challenging not to inhale a bag of chips!
As for traditions, I pondered that quite a bit initially. Perhaps our true traditions precede the ones we are now accustomed to. Better yet, creating new ones that improve the lives of future generations is somewhat motivating.
I have embraced the fight: nutritionally, professionally, socially. Bring it on I say.

"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
Marcus Arelius

 

[turbin3]

Lyle McDonald has a book (his forum also has a lot of great info) that covers the ketogenic diet in great detail, and he also does a great job of providing citations of peer-reviewed studies to back up the things he says. This is the single best guide I've found to that type of diet, as most seem to be lacking in one area or another.

Also, in terms of intermittent fasting, Martin Berkhan's site is FULL of lots of great info. He also does an excellent job of substantiating most of his claims with peer-reviewed study data. For me personally, I'm not much of a breakfast person, so I tend to do the whole 16/8 IF thing naturally, skipping breakfast, eating my first meal around ~12-1pm, and then usually eating 2 more meals and sometimes a snack between there and about 8-10pm, where I stop eating again (for 16 hours of fasting between sleep and the next afternoon meal). It's not for everyone but, I've found for me that simply giving my digestive system a bit of a longer break like that makes me feel quite a bit better, plus I like the lack of fuss in the mornings in being able to just wake up and go.