Google Algorithm Updates - 2022 Ongoing Discussion

[bernard]

Looking at bullet points: #1, #2, and #5 would probably fuck over 90 percent of all site owners and direct that traffic to news sites like the previously-mentioned Forbes.

I don't think so and there's been A LOT of debate on this during the last couple years, including numerous examples of previous successful niche sites that went too far in their topics and got slapped.

This is pretty easy to avoid, by having a bunch of content, pillar pages and other info content, that isn't specifically aimed at a long tail keyword.

 

[OnlineDopamine]

I don't think so and there's been A LOT of debate on this during the last couple years, including numerous examples of previous successful niche sites that went too far in their topics and got slapped.

This is pretty easy to avoid, by having a bunch of content, pillar pages and other info content, that isn't specifically aimed at a long tail keyword.

I get it but how would Google determine what your lane/niche is?

For instance, look at a site like Wealth of Geeks (the owner has been on the Niche Pursuits podcast two times). He literally covers a dozen different topics (e.g., travel, finance, geek culture, family, lifestyle, etc.). He'd be severely fucked if you'd go by the bullet points provided on the previous page.

I'm probably just overthinking it at this point and got too hung up on the "writing content for search engines instead of humans" part but ain't gonna lie: it's the first time I'm nervous about an update in three years of doing this and never being hit.

 

[Darth]

Wow, this is huge news. Sounds like it will be panda level. Strap in folks, the next few weeks are going to be very exciting! I feel optimistic about my main sites, but also quite nervous as you can of course get rekt. Kind of like a gambler does I guess

 

[Ryuzaki]

I'm probably just overthinking it at this point and got too hung up on the "writing content for search engines instead of humans" part but ain't gonna lie: it's the first time I'm nervous about an update in three years of doing this and never being hit.

You're being rational and logical, but past experience beyond 3 years would tell me that when Google uses this kind of language, they're talking about more egregious stuff, like AI content, doorway pages, spintax and adlib content, database sites, etc. Not real content.

There's been a lot of updates targeting this kind of crap, and among the most memorable for me was the Farmer Update. It trashed some huge companies that were paying people to pump out iterations of every keyword possible. They were "farming" the SERPs by planting every "seed" possible. Like...

• hot piece of pizza
• warm piece of pizza
• cold piece of pizza
• hot slice of pizza
• warm slice of pizza
• cold slice of pizza
• hot piece of lasagna
• warm piece of lasagna
• cold piece of lasagna

Just every variation of every keyword possible, they'd have something published on. Demand Media got slaughtered for it and had such a bad reputation they've changed names more than once.

"As of 2008, Demand Media owned 135,000 videos and 340,000 articles. It was claimed to be one of the largest contributors to YouTube, uploading between 10,000 and 20,000 new videos per month, and gets about 1.5 million page views per day on YouTube."

That was in 2008. They're back now with slightly better approaches (eHow and LiveStrong) and more varied acquisitions. But my point is to show you the scale of the trash that was being pumped out and that that is the level of trash that I think Google is targeting here. Not normal webmasters seeking to make a buck.

 

[bernard]

I get it but how would Google determine what your lane/niche is?

For instance, look at a site like Wealth of Geeks (the owner has been on the Niche Pursuits podcast two times). He literally covers a dozen different topics (e.g., travel, finance, geek culture, family, lifestyle, etc.). He'd be severely fucked if you'd go by the bullet points provided on the previous page.

I'm probably just overthinking it at this point and got too hung up on the "writing content for search engines instead of humans" part but ain't gonna lie: it's the first time I'm nervous about an update in three years of doing this and never being hit.

Google is easily able to determine what a site is about. This is the good old, go click on "Related queries" and you can click your way around a topic and into a related topic.

Example, I searched "Coffee", a related search was "coffee plant", I clicked that and I did autosuggest and I got "how to take care of a coffee plant" and then I got "coffee plant houseplant" and so on.

If at that point, you have done content on all that, and you're looking into expanding, you could jump unto "Black tea plant" pretty easily and then go from there to writing about tea.

It would be a stretch to go from "coffee plant" to "aloe vera plant" though, but not as much as going from "coffee plant" to "indoor cactus plant", because coffee and aloe vera are both connected through a vertical as natural medications.

Topics are connected vertically and horizontally. If you want to go from coffee to aloe vera plan, you need to do so slowly and imo, might need to rebrand somewhere along the line, however going from coffee to tea to herbal tea to natural stimulants etc would be perfectly safe.

 

[Encrypted]

Been thinking about this a bit and one question i haven't quite understood/answered is "What's the essence of core updates (e.g May 2022 update)?" if they still have to push signal specific updates like Core web vitals, PRU, and now "Helpful content" update ALONGSIDE several broad core updates every year?

Pre the first PRU update (Dec 2020), Google would only release 2 or 3 major updates per year that covers pretty much everything. Now, we're getting 5+ major updates per year with significant impact.

Could this be a blessing in disguise (i.e by pushing signal specific updates, google is essentially telling us things they think are important but are still struggling to deal with, which can be further exploited)? OR are core updates focused on signals that are somewhat easier to calculate while more complex analysis (e.g PRU updates) require their own update? Are they intentionally making the SERPS unstable to suit their hidden advertising/monetization agenda?

I'm just trying to understand where G is going with all this. Its not like any of their updates in the last 2 - 3 years have made the SERPS better. The SERPs are becoming too volatile for businesses to rely on organic traffic as their main traffic source.

 

[MrMedia]

This feels major. It also reminds me why seo content based display sites are such a risky move.

I expect I’ll be fine but it’s such a gamble it doesn’t feel like a real business anymore to me.

I’m counting the days to cash out of this game and dump 7 figures into the S&P.

Of course… great timing just as I sign on the dotted line for my new house. Pray to allah bros

 

[janky]

• Is the content primarily to attract people from search engines, rather than made for humans?

Does anyone think they could go after ultra-optimized content too? Surfer/POP and others?
Some of my articles have 80-90 scores in surfer, so if they want, they probably can hit me.
TBH it's not even worth optimizing articles with these tools, optimization based on GSC works so much better.

 

[Ryuzaki]

"What's the essence of core updates (e.g May 2022 update)?" if they still have to push signal specific updates like Core web vitals, PRU, and now "Helpful content" update ALONGSIDE several broad core updates every year?

I think the core updates are about the fundamental and typical things used in ranking pages. Page rank, backlink analysis, understanding the topic and intent of a page to match it to queries, on-page factors, parsing and rendering... all that 101 stuff.

All these extra "side algorithms" as I call them are modifiers, transitioners, and weights applied to the scores being produced by the core algorithm.

You can think of Panda like an indexation-based site-wide quality score multiplier that effects the final output of every page. You can think of Penguin as a threshold for penalties and/or weights that effect the backlink profile score, like if your anchor text profile is obviously manipulated or you're busted using PBNs. The first is weighted and the 2nd is a threshold (though they seem to ignore more now than punish for it). Core web vitals is a multiplier based on user experience, etc.

To say it another way, the core algorithm ranks the documents in the order they traditionally should be ranked, but then it consults these side algorithms to see how that rank should be adjusted based on more specific or advanced information.

Does anyone think they could go after ultra-optimized content too? Surfer/POP and others?

They could but I don't think that's strictly to their benefit. If using Surfer & POP are correlated with crappy content that doesn't serve the user, then sure. But I think anyone going that extra mile with those tools is probably going the extra mile in their content quality too, or so I'd think!

I don't think any of these kind of "attacks" from Google are ever strictly about targeting SEO's. They're about targeting crap that fills the SERPs that embarrasses them and causes people to talk about how crappy the results are. If an SEO is producing amazing content, it does Google no good to down-rank those pages so that lesser content can rise to the top. The regular internet user doesn't know what is "SEO'd" or not. They just know what satisfies their search query.

Quality is always going to be the lighthouse in the dark. Creating automated content stitched together from databases, using AI content or literally copy & pasting content from other sites en masse, and all of these shortcuts where you realize you have to strike now or you'll lose the opportunity... those are the things being attacked here: the exploits in the algorithm.

 

[Darth]

I expect I’ll be fine but it’s such a gamble it doesn’t feel like a real business anymore to me.

It's funny, I've been in this game 20 odd-years and never been able to really tell myself/believe internally "I have a business".

 

[Ryuzaki]

It's funny, I've been in this game 20 odd-years and never been able to really tell myself/believe internally "I have a business".

I hear this kind of thing and haven't felt compelled to feel it in a long time. Once I quit the spam/PBN stuff over a decade ago I've felt fine about the website side of things.

What I do is no different than a print magazine. I'm a publisher employing writers, editors, formatters, image people, and so forth to pump out a final set of articles. I then do what every magazine and newspaper does, which is sell advertising space on it. And I get users to my publication through any exposure, word of mouth, and advertising means available to me, like they do. The only difference is I don't have subscribers and I don't give out 100,000's of free papers weekly to justify charging my advertisers more. In that way I'm on the level than some of these shifty print publications.

 

[bernard]

I expect I’ll be fine but it’s such a gamble it doesn’t feel like a real business anymore to me.

It's funny, I've been in this game 20 odd-years and never been able to really tell myself/believe internally "I have a business".

Meh, I see this business much as I would someone investing in stocks and bitcoin or daytrading.

Yes, there's some difference in how you execute, but the fundamentals of living of something outside your control is much the same and your business is pretty much overall dependent on consumer spending and business cycles.

It's the same in how some people go wide and some go deep and some on, but ultimately everyone has to deal with substantial risk.

 

[MrMedia]

Let me rephrase…

Seo display model is a poor business model. One supplier - Google - and one real customer - Google demand side advertisers.

I’ve been doing this nearly 20 years and always understood the risks. It is not the same as a magazine or publishing business even though our job is much the same - produce content.

No magazine I have ever dealt with was based solely on the one supplier one customer model.

 

[Hanuman]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding things but wouldn't that mean that sites like G2 and Gartner (just search for things like 'Zoom alternatives') are severely fucked as well?

The way I understand is that sites like G2 have an audience - software buyers, and all articles are focused on that and so are fine.

If you have a site with topics like

> why is pizza circular
>is pizza bad for health
> is pizza better than pasta

you will be fine because you are targeting a specific kind of user - the one who eats pizzas.

But if you have a site with topics like
> why is pizza circular
> why is a coin circular
>why is a wheel circular

you will get downgraded because you don't have a user type. You are targeting the search engine.

Ideally, the Q&A sites that cover every topic under the sun should get affected. But knowing Google, that won't happen.

 

[Ryuzaki]

Let me rephrase…

Seo display model is a poor business model. One supplier - Google - and one real customer - Google demand side advertisers.

I’ve been doing this nearly 20 years and always understood the risks. It is not the same as a magazine or publishing business even though our job is much the same - produce content.

No magazine I have ever dealt with was based solely on the one supplier one customer model.

You’re using a plural word and calling it a singular person. I’m not sure about your arrangements but Google is one of 12 exchanges that my network works with to pump up the demand and fill rate. If Google shut the doors on AdWords and Adsense tomorrow, those other exchanges have the same Comscore reach as they had the day before with 11 more exchanges for advertisers to choose from, meaning the bidding pressure will hiccup only momentarily if the completely unlikely scenario were to occur. I suspect you’re not as exposed as you think.

It’s tempting to either be in fear of or glamorize the safest forms of SEO as some kind of black flag flying black hat pirate adventure, plundering treasure through exploits. Sounds scary or cool, doing what few others do. But the industry is mature and EVERYONE is exposed. Every company on earth has an online presence. It’s not unique any more. It’s expected. Its just like we’re all exposed to the next giant earth-killing meteorite. I’m not scared of it and I don’t feel cool or nihilistic that I made money during the age of the coming of the meteorite either.

Anyways, calling the entirety of the globes advertisers a singular entity is like saying that taking government civil contracts is an exposed business. If the gov disappeared (unlikely) tomorrow, the citizens are still there. The gov wasn’t one entity. It was taxpayers all along who still need things built and maintained and they will turn to all the private companies that the gov subcontracted to anyways. Nobody was ever exposed and it wasn’t a one-provider-one-supplier situation.

If Google totally screws up their algorithm, there’s several search engines that are totally capable that people will turn to right now.

And there’s still tons of ways to fetch traffic and attention. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, TikTok, YouTube, forums. TikTok does more traffic than Google now. Pinterest traffic is very high value. I’ve been getting $79 RPMs off of old ladies on Facebook this month. Google made up about 50% of my traffic this month. I don’t feel that exposed on the traffic side or the ad side.

 

[MrMedia]

You’re using a plural word and calling it a singular person. I’m not sure about your arrangements but Google is one of 12 exchanges that my network works with to pump up the demand and fill rate. If Google shut the doors on AdWords and Adsense tomorrow, those other exchanges have the same Comscore reach as they had the day before with 11 more exchanges for advertisers to choose from, meaning the bidding pressure will hiccup only momentarily if the completely unlikely scenario were to occur. I suspect you’re not as exposed as you think.

It’s tempting to either be in fear of or glamorize the safest forms of SEO as some kind of black flag flying black hat pirate adventure, plundering treasure through exploits. Sounds scary or cool, doing what few others do. But the industry is mature and EVERYONE is exposed. Every company on earth has an online presence. It’s not unique any more. It’s expected. Its just like we’re all exposed to the next giant earth-killing meteorite. I’m not scared of it and I don’t feel cool or nihilistic that I made money during the age of the coming of the meteorite either.

Anyways, calling the entirety of the globes advertisers a singular entity is like saying that taking government civil contracts is an exposed business. If the gov disappeared (unlikely) tomorrow, the citizens are still there. The gov wasn’t one entity. It was taxpayers all along who still need things built and maintained and they will turn to all the private companies that the gov subcontracted to anyways. Nobody was ever exposed and it wasn’t a one-provider-one-supplier situation.

If Google totally screws up their algorithm, there’s several search engines that are totally capable that people will turn to right now.

And there’s still tons of ways to fetch traffic and attention. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, TikTok, YouTube, forums. TikTok does more traffic than Google now. Pinterest traffic is very high value. I’ve been getting $79 RPMs off of old ladies on Facebook this month. Google made up about 50% of my traffic this month. I don’t feel that exposed on the traffic side or the ad side.

Yes but my point was about SEO Based display monetized sites not sites that get traffic from multiple channels.

The reliance on Google for traffic (80%+) and Google Demand for revenue (Likely 70%+) is not something that feels like a well balanced business model.

I say this not to knock the model but to highlight its inherent weaknesses. Pretending a switch off from either ends of Google would'nt be devasting for SEO to display sites is extremely optimistic.

 

[DanielS]

• Is the content primarily to attract people from search engines, rather than made for humans?

Does anyone think they could go after ultra-optimized content too? Surfer/POP and others?
Some of my articles have 80-90 scores in surfer, so if they want, they probably can hit me.
TBH it's not even worth optimizing articles with these tools, optimization based on GSC works so much better.

This must mean content stuffed with keywords, right? Can't believe that people would still be keyword-stuffing in 2022 but I guess they are?

 

[zelch]

Google made up about 50% of my traffic this month. I don’t feel that exposed on the traffic side or the ad side.

this should probably be a new thread @Ryuzaki but wondering, where is the rest of your traffic coming from? Paid sources? Or other sources of organic free traffic that are equal to google? curious how you built that up with how large google's market share is

 

[JOoa0ky]

This feels major. It also reminds me why seo content based display sites are such a risky move.

I expect I’ll be fine but it’s such a gamble it doesn’t feel like a real business anymore to me.

I’m counting the days to cash out of this game and dump 7 figures into the S&P.

Of course… great timing just as I sign on the dotted line for my new house. Pray to allah bros

I find your perspective incredibly intriguing because you're moving in the direction where I'm coming from and I'm moving in the direction where you're coming from.

I started off with a focus on the market and building a portfolio of US equities. Consequently, I've sat through 80% drops in portfolio value... It's not devoid of risk.

Then I started a local brick and mortar business the summer before COVID with a 500k loan. The december right before the turd hit the fan, I remember asking my CPA how much working capital I needed in my checking account and he said that all of his clients in my industry kept approximately 1 month of reserves. Well what do you know? The lock down was over 3 months long. It's not devoid of risk.

As of the moment now, I'm trying to venture into where all of you guys are which is the digital media space in hopes of creating a third stream of cash flow to further diversify and mitigate all of this ridiculous risk.

IMO, hoping from one industry to the next or sizing down isn't really the best answer. You need to add more and truly diversify. When I say diversify, I don't mean having 3 websites in 3 unrelated niches... I also don't mean having 50% stocks and 50% bonds...

 

[NetZero]

Just one page on your site needs to piss off Google, and they punish the whole site. Yeah, I think once this drops, is the best time to quickly analyze those tough niches, see who survived, and go after it if you got the content writing chops. Good luck fellas

 

[MrMedia]

Just one page on your site needs to piss off Google, and they punish the whole site. Yeah, I think once this drops, is the best time to quickly analyze those tough niches, see who survived, and go after it if you got the content writing chops. Good luck fellas

I read somewhere that the penalty is a sliding scale type effect and not binary yes this site is crap or no this site is fine. More like there are issues and therefore x% penalty will be applied. Apologies for lack of source.

Dreading roll out and I feel that I havent even done anything wrong per these guidelines.

Does anyone know when it is starting apart from Monday onwards for around two weeks?

 

[harrytwatter]

What a disappointing morning Ahrefs check... come on Google!

 

[OnlineDopamine]

I read somewhere that the penalty is a sliding scale type effect and not binary yes this site is crap or no this site is fine. More like there are issues and therefore x% penalty will be applied. Apologies for lack of source.

Dreading roll out and I feel that I havent even done anything wrong per these guidelines.

Does anyone know when it is starting apart from Monday onwards for around two weeks?

From the Glenn Gabe article posted on the previous page:

The Signal Is Weighted: Impact Could Vary
I asked if the new site-wide ranking signal was binary (yes/no) or if there were grades of scoring. Google explained that the signal is weighted (and they explained that in their blog post as well). They explained that “sites with a lot of unhelpful content will find the signal stronger for them”. So, if you have a lot of unhelpful content on the site, like content created for search engines over humans, then you could see a stronger effect from the Helpful Content Update (HCU).

Taken from: https://searchengineland.com/google-helpful-content-update-what-to-expect-387328

Is it a penalty?
Google is careful in its wording regarding whether this is a penalty.
It’s not a manual action. You won’t see it listed in Google Search Console. It’s not a spam action.
We are to call it a “signal”. This is one of the many ranking signals Google describes in their documentation on How Search Works.
If that signal is applied to your site, it likely will feel like a penalty.
The good news is that you can get this classification removed from your site if you can improve your content.
The part of Google’s algorithm that classifies sites for this update will be running continuously.
If the algorithms see that your site’s content has shifted to be helpful to searchers, the strength of the signal may be reduced, or even lifted completely.

So how tf are we supposed to know which articles aren't considered helpful in Google's eyes? All my content is human written and I never used AI or SEO optimization tools like Surfer.

I somewhat get the feeling that Google just wants us to be busy updating all of our existing content instead of publishing new articles to reduce the indexing load.

 

[NetZero]

I did get rid of some old blog posts/guest posts I agreed to years ago. I just refreshed and no-indexed any other useless pages that actually do not need to appear in search. I do hope to benefit from this update, by being proactive. I feel like a certificate of participation and a gold star are in order.

 

[Steptoe]

Meh, nothing to do yet except open a beer and wait for the flock of headless chickens to start tweeting